2510 comments on How a Top Secret SEAL Team 6 Mission Into North Korea Fell Apart
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The comments section is closed. To submit a letter to the editor for publication, write to letters@nytimes.com.
David commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
D
David
Virginia ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@NA
The reporting is not the problem. The behavior is the problem. The USA is taking actions of war. Trump created the risk, not The NY Times.
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MG commented September 5, 2025
MG
MG
Toronto ·
Sept. 5, 2025
We live our day-to-day lives, navigating the complexities, joys and sorrows, taking the kids to school, feeding the cat, noticing nature and the weather; all the little things and moments that make up the experience of being alive, all the while unaware that somewhere in a secret place groups of anonymous, neurotic men come up with harebrained, comic-book worthy schemes of world domination that threaten to annihilate us all. Sheer insanity.
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Patrick Healy commented September 5, 2025
Patrick Healy
Patrick Healy
Assistant Managing Editor ·
Sept. 5, 2025
This story, about a classified Navy SEAL mission in North Korea in 2019 intended to help Americans in high-level nuclear talks, has never been told. National security reporting like this is in the public interest.
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Howie Lisnoff commented September 5, 2025
Howie Lisnoff
Howie Lisnoff
Massachusetts ·
Sept. 5, 2025
The military industrial complex, which Dwight Eisenhower warned about in his farewell address, has consistently escalated in the following decades.
A source of its bleeding of national treasure is Brown University’s Costs of War Project, which examines the trillions of dollars that go to war and the preparations for war. The US now maintains about 750 military bases of varying kinds around the globe. No other nation comes close to that kind of military presence.
It seems that few in the US want to examine or criticize action such as this one by Navy Seals on the territory of a sovereign nation. In the US, we have been conditioned to accept endless military actions, both overt and covert, while weapons manufacturers have grown rich and social welfare programs have languished or been eliminated.
Some believed that Donald Trump would be a force for peace. The exact opposite has happened. Washington, D.C, Los Angeles, and other cities are in the crosshairs of military operations in the US, a role that police filled in the past. A heavily militarized ICE presence on the streets of the US is yet another example of the militarization of this nation.
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NA commented September 5, 2025
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NA
NYC ·
Sept. 5, 2025
Transparency is one thing but there are elements of this reporting that strike me as incredibly dangerous given how contentious our relationship is with North Korea. Classified military operations that have never been reported on before have stayed that way for a reason. I’m not sure what this reporting is meant to achieve as it will certainly not improve relations with our adversaries and any benefit from these covert operations now being public knowledge seems scant.
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Mary Smith commented September 5, 2025
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Mary Smith
Alexandria, VA ·
Sept. 5, 2025
I agree about secrecy, but I do not understand why the first Trump administration did not go to Congress and inform them.
Just because secrecy should be maintained, it is just as important that the country’s laws be maintained.
No President is above the law as much as they think they are.
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Andrew Bowen commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
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Andrew Bowen
Leuven, Belgium ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@NA, public scrutiny is the only check on these risky operations, particularly because Congress is currently unwilling to pose as any check on the president.
It's better to get this out in the open now then at some other time, like during another negotiation.
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Anne commented September 5, 2025
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Anne
Boston ·
Sept. 5, 2025
THIS is why I subscribe to the NY Times, why in-depth journalism and experienced journalists are more important than they have ever been to nothing less than our survival on this planet. And why all of us must question the power we give our "leaders" and exactly how they are wielding it - allegedly in our names and best interests, and with our hard earned tax dollars.
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YamaYagi commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
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YamaYagi
Ilha do Corvo ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@NA - While not a devout pacifist and being one who wishes our USA the best, I disagree on the argument for secrecy on several counts. First of all, it is likely North Korea got clues and made some conclusions an incursion occurred. Further, was it worth the risk in this instance to spy on North Korean soil when Trump might simply have gotten a competent team of diplomats and military advisers to engage NK and get to fair dealings ? Finally, if these sorts of forays are not exposed it leaves men with notions of war more than peace to continue the egregious, enshrouded risk taking rather than face-to-face, nation to nation brokering of the world order.
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John D. commented September 5, 2025
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John D.
Owls Head, Maine ·
Sept. 5, 2025
Two nations with nuclear weapons. Two irrational, authoritarian, unmoored rulers. And no accountability. What could go wrong?
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Gianni commented September 5, 2025
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Gianni
Queens ·
Sept. 5, 2025
If you are critical of the public reporting of these actions instead of the actions themselves, it might be time to take a step back examine for self reflection.
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Patrick Healy commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
Patrick Healy
Patrick Healy
Assistant Managing Editor ·
Sept. 5, 2025
These missions often remain shielded by secrecy laws, leaving most Americans with no way to know about major actions that influence national security and may have an impact on their lives.
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Me commented September 5, 2025
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Me
Seattle ·
Sept. 5, 2025
It boggles the mind how anyone in the military can support Trump. He ostracizes our allies, cozies up to ideological/strategic rivals and tyrants, and uses the military (which is full of suckers according to him) as his personal playthings to kill noncombatants.
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Joe commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
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Joe
Montana ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@NA I believe it helps to dispel the notion that these war fighters engage in only successful missions. And highlight the keeping of info from our civilian elected leaders.
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December commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
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December
Concord, NH ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@NA The Epstein files have not been released for a reason. We cannot trust our president or the congressional members who support him, or the agencies that work under his direction. Our nation has become unmoored from the truth, and we are each left to navigate the coming storm on our own. I never thought I would write these words about the United States. I always thought this was the thinking of paranoid people. I fear with the election of donald trump we have allowed the malevolent to overcome us.
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Danielle commented September 5, 2025
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Danielle
Brooklyn ·
Sept. 5, 2025
Honestly the people complaining about what’s revealed in this reporting need to pull their head out of the military’s you-know-what. Our leaders make brash decisions like this that could impact all of us and then mark it classified so we never know how risky they’re willing to be.
Incredible reporting by the team at the NYT. Eye opening need for oversight on decision making / what’s worth the risk. Seems this did more harm than good, and seems many other situations did too.
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Roland Fagan commented September 5, 2025
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Roland Fagan
Silver Spring, MD ·
Sept. 5, 2025
"The Trump administration did not notify key members of Congress who oversee intelligence operations, before or after the mission. The lack of notification may have violated the law."
Of course it violated the law, with Mr. Trump involved, but any mission that had to go perfectly to succeed was destined to fail.
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JB commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
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JB
Michigan ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@NA
I’m usually all in favor of transparency for its own sake, but I probably agree with you on this one.
Weigh the danger of riling up North Korea against the chance that this article will spark meaningful change in the current administration.
Not going to happen, so is the risk worth the possible reward?
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Patrick Healy commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
Patrick Healy
Patrick Healy
Assistant Managing Editor ·
Sept. 5, 2025
That problem is that these missions require extreme care and precision but are exceptionally vulnerable to failure. Some are big successes; others go wrong. There is often little public accountability.
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Alpha commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
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Alpha
Islamabad ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@Patrick Healy
With you 100%, these are actions which may lead loved ones to fight war in other countries for reasons that was pure blunder.
People in US don’t protest in streets not because they don’t care but because they are not aware.
There would have been no protest during Vietnam war if journalist had not reported truth from the ground in Vietnam war.
Today Military Industrial Complex is suppressing Freedom of Speech as way to stop any dissent.
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Hugh commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
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Hugh
Charlotte, NC ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@Patrick Healy I don't think the public needs to know everything our military does. Maybe in 20 or more years from now. If this is news to NK we may pay the price.
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Dru Sefton commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
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Dru Sefton
San Francisco ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@Patrick Healy Plus, probably illegal. So Americans need to know their president did this.
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Patrick Healy commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
Patrick Healy
Patrick Healy
Assistant Managing Editor ·
Sept. 5, 2025
The Times proceeds cautiously when reporting on classified military operations. We withheld some sensitive information that could affect future Special Operations and intelligence missions.
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Patrick Healy commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
Patrick Healy
Patrick Healy
Assistant Managing Editor ·
Sept. 5, 2025
The reporters interviewed two dozen current and former U.S. officials familiar with the mission. Officials said they were discussing classified details because the mission highlights a problem that plagues Special Operations.
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Mxpldn commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
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Mxpldn
LDN ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@Patrick Healy terrific reporting. Thank you
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Mike commented September 5, 2025
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Mike
Oakland ·
Sept. 5, 2025
I think now more than ever, we need hard-hitting investigative reporting on national security, thank you. Our current un-intelligence apparatus—headed by a director who recently outed an undercover CIA officer via social media—leaves much to be desired if a mission like this relied on competence. Add a defense secretary and a CIA director with less than ideal OPSEC, and I can’t help but worry about the ability of our intelligence community to protect us. Please keep doing more reporting like this.
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Dan Smith commented September 5, 2025
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Dan Smith
Massachusetts ·
Sept. 5, 2025
"The NORTH KOREAN leader seemed increasingly unpredictable and dangerous, and his relationship with Mr. TRUMP had lurched erratically between letters of friendship and public threats of nuclear war." Swap the names and it still works.
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Liam commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
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Liam
Phoenix ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@Patrick Healy
To seriously make the argument that reporting this story is “in the public interest,” you’re going to have to at least confront the fact that this report will absolutely make similar missions more difficult to carry out in the future and explain why that detriment is outweighed by public knowledge of the mission. It’s not at all clear to me. Although you state that some details that could affect future operations have been withheld, it’s clear that not all such details have been (e.g., the repeated use of a mini-sub). You will also have to explain why reporting this story doesn’t create a risk of retaliation from North Korea now given that secrecy was so important at the time.
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Earthling commented September 5, 2025
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Earthling
New England ·
Sept. 5, 2025
I would prefer that our top-secret mission stayed secret. I'm assuming we as a nation conduct them and that they are highly dangerous, so I'm not sure that exposing yet another of Trump's misjudgments is worth alerting an adversary that the U.S. conducted a military mission on their soil.
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Jordan commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
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Jordan
MD ·
Sept. 5, 2025
This administration uses the armed forces as a political prop at the drop of a hat. I don't mind a little transparency, and maybe some day a little accountability.
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TJF commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
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TJF
DeLand ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@NA
President Trump ordered a very risky mission with a relatively small upside and all the downsides that you note in just talking about it. The potential downsides to a larger failure were even worse.
Americans need to know about his recklessness.
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DJMc commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
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DJMc
NYCMetro ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@NA
The US has no relationship with N Korea beyond our POTUS's imaginary, personal, relationship with the dictator. N Korea does have a strong, and growing, relationship with our adversaries in Russia and China though.
The US is currently in the process of destroying strategically important relationships across the globe, primarily because one person erroneously thinks we are being “ripped off" by trade imbalances.
China is now happy to step into the lead role of global hegemon that the US has abandoned.
The danger of this NYT article pales in comparison.
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Sarah commented September 5, 2025
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Sarah
Ottawa ·
Sept. 5, 2025
These fishermen were up early trying to get food for themselves and their families. There is already a huge food shortage in North Korea, and they were sadly all shot dead.
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kkirk commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
k
kkirk
MI ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@NA one thing struck me about this, is that Biden followed precedent and informed key member of Congress. Knowing what they knew about Trump, they either agreed that the mission was a good idea, or they understood a flawed decision and support this dangerous president anyway. I guess we didn't really need further proof that our National Security is greatly endangered by trump.
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TRUE PATRIOT commented September 5, 2025
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TRUE PATRIOT
Virginia ·
Sept. 5, 2025
Trump/Republican America is a reckless rogue nation in the world, confirmed. Again.
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Ken T. commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
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Ken T.
Massachusetts ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@Patrick Healy
One has to wonder whether, if Mr. Healy had served in an intelligence gathering role in our services, he would be so cavalier about disclosing such information.
There is no public benefit from disclosure of this particular operation. Rather, there is now an understanding by adversaries of the specific people and some of the specific assets used in our operations.
This disclosure bears no relationship to the type of reporting involved in the Pentagon Papers case. The NYT and Mr. Healy have exposed participants in future operations to great and grave risks, and have added nothing to meaningful dialog.
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Bill Walker commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
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Bill Walker
Yonkers, NY ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@Patrick Healy I’d prefer that such operations were not reported. Some members of the public might find these details interesting, but I’m concerned that reporting such as this would give rogue states such as North Korea, cause to change their defense posture and increase the threat to the brave men and women in our military and to our country.
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JP commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
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JP
SWVA ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@MG I just had a thought like this the other day. How sad it is that we are all subject to the whims of megalomaniacs, when given the choice, most of us just want to live in peace and quiet with clean air to breathe and water to drink, watching our children and grandchildren grow...
I am sure those North Korean fishermen never thought that their lives would be cut short by a ridiculous SEAL team who would then go on to puncture their lungs so their bodies would sink in the dark night sea (I reacted to that detail with absolute disgust, btw, this isn’t a war, those fishermen were not combatants—their families don’t deserve a funeral?). What a sad world.
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TheDoctorSez commented September 5, 2025
TheDoctorSez
TheDoctorSez
Albuquerque NM ·
Sept. 5, 2025
I realize our nation does secretive and questionable things, I know, I was a combat nurse in Vietnam during the war, worked with special & black ops, in terms of not being able to even talk with team members as a group (only one on one), every word was on a need to know confidential basis, and treating an injured member was more than problematic. Though what concerns me is that we have a draft-dodger, a man who relishes inside secrets, takes people such as Robert Ritchi into the War Room, allows Russian agents to photograph private meetings without minders, Trump knows nothing about inclusion, I'm sure he believes he's an actual warrior, a man of strength & character, where nothing could be further from the truth as our country is placed time and agin at the edge, though now we have all fallen, and not metaphorically, with Trump's lack of education and lack of perspective candor from yes-men as a danger we've never faced before, this is what happens when a convicted criminal becomes president, if we have the chance, a man of Trump's ilk, must never find his way to the office.
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TJ commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
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TJ
Lansing ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@NA I think it is worthwhile to highlight the fact that we have special operations teams acting with essentially zero oversight in sovereign nations, killing civilians. What's a worse affront to North Korea, killing three civilian fishermen on a mission to advance our espionage against their nation, or reporting to the US people that our government is doing this without our consent and endangering us all.
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Marge Keller commented September 5, 2025
Marge Keller
Marge Keller
Midwest ·
Sept. 5, 2025
"The Trump administration did not notify key members of Congress who oversee intelligence operations, before or after the mission. The lack of notification may have violated the law."
He probably didn't want to notify members of Congress because he probably would not have gotten enough support to go ahead and he probably failed to notify Congress because of impeachment concerns.
I keep asking myself what else has and does this guy continue to do that violates the law?
ANY other president would have been impeached for these actions. Since when is there an expiration date on impeachment behavior?
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DL commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
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DL
Santa Cruz ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@Patrick Healy I strongly disagree. Reports like this are entertaining, but in no sense defensible. I do not want to be obliged to trust the Times' judgment. The details enhance the entertainment value of the report, but they also reveal details the public has no reason to know, while endangering future covet m issions intended to keep our country safe. In every ultimate sense I condemn the judgment that led to this report. If we must, I would favor limiting the First Amendment in order to prevent future breaches of security like this.
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rupert commented September 5, 2025
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rupert
FL ·
Sept. 5, 2025
When we have an administration more focused on optics and dramatic TV clips it is even more critical that the military have extended oversight. Mission creep and mission blindness (so focused on the mission adverse consequences are overlooked) happen. The appropriate Congress members need to be advised.
This episode seems a case in point. What were the risk/reward analysis, if any? The downside was ultimate - nuclear war. The upside - some intel that might aid in complex negotiations. Maybe. The whole complex and foolish idea should have been nixed on the merits - or rather lack thereof.
Fortunately we have the benefit of hindsight. What are the chances that the Pentagon, led by a juvenile delinquent, might have learned something?
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Finn commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
F
Finn
RI ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@Alpha
Do not forget Daniel Ellsberg’s courage by releasing the Pentagon Papers. Those Papers held the truth about the — Coporate — military industrial complex AND the horrific loss of over 58K expendable service members, in my opinion, for the almighty dollar.
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Hyacinth commented September 5, 2025
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Hyacinth
Philadelphia PA ·
Sept. 5, 2025
We have an administration that talks peace, but seems to enjoy unilateral military action against countries that appear, at least superficially, less able to directly retaliate. In less than a year, we’ve seen our military bombings of a Venezuelan drug boat, the Houthis in Yemen, and Iranian nuclear facilities. There has been, as far as the public knows, no consultations or post action debriefings with Congress. We know Trump has little actual empathy for servicemen or casualties, and the DoD (now DoW???) is led by a macho man sycophant. Military leaders who don’t fit their mold or toe the party lines are being purged. How long before incompetent yes-men green light an operation that goes wrong? The Republicans in Congress raise few questions, much less objections, to any of this. The press and most other watch dogs are cowed or clueless. I think we very much need reporting like this to remind the American public that their leadership needs to be held accountable, for taking unnecessary risks and skirting around our own rules, even in the gray, dark areas.
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DanNY commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
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DanNY
NY ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@NA I understand your point, but you have to balance secrecy with this administration’s disregard for rules, norms, convention, and even the Constitution. The media has an obligation to check the government. This episode reveals a potential abuse by the C-in-C of spec ops, since Trump didn’t confer with Congress. Who knows what other abuses he may have committed. We won’t know unless the media does its job.
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Heather commented September 5, 2025
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Heather
canada ·
Sept. 5, 2025
Thank you for stellar and frightening reporting. It has never been more important in this political climate for reporting like this.
There is a sense of impunity for actions since Trump came to office in 2016. We are learning more of this today. North Korea has likely known it since 2019.
The world dictators Mr. Trump so adores play him like a fiddle, while his cabinet praises him like a court of jesters.
Dangerous times my American friends for you and for the world, especially given the summary execution of 11 people on a boat in International waters.
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scbarfly commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
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scbarfly
nowheresville ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@Hugh
I too wondered how long it would take for suspicion to be aroused. Surely a fishing boat so close to shore with no sign of life on board would have been discovered within hours. That the whole crew had succumbed to gunshot wounds that left no traceable forensic evidence would kickstart a rapid process of elimination, wouldn't it? Still the mystery remains as to why the NK government never threw a public, global hissy fit (unless I missed that part).
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R commented September 5, 2025
R
R
Minnesota ·
Sept. 5, 2025
This article is why I subscribe to the NYTimes even as an Anti-Federalist. Fantastic.
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Jay commented September 5, 2025
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Jay
NJ ·
Sept. 5, 2025
Still processing what I just read. Amazing bravery by the Seals.
Also amazing, the level of detail in the article.
This is no small leak… also, why now? Something else being planned that the leaker(s) seek to thwart?
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Bob commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
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Bob
Maryland ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@NA I think it's disingenuous to think North Korea isn't aware that this happened given what was reported. An empty fishing boat and a large nuclear submarine near their waters?
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Jay commented September 5, 2025
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Jay
NYC ·
Sept. 5, 2025
Did those poor fishermen’s families ever find out what happened to their loved ones?
“Rules of Engagement”? They did not “engage” with us? They had no guns on uniforms, just civilians.
What a brutal thing to knife thru their lungs to sink them?
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Stephen commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
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Stephen
New Hampshire ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@NA We have a president who just announced his plan to name the Defense Department the Department of War, is notorious for acts that distract from his egregious errors, and understands that most Americans are likely to support their leader in time of war. And you want to keep stuff like the SEAL's fiasco a secret from Congress?
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Dirk commented September 5, 2025
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Dirk
Sweden ·
Sept. 5, 2025
To everyone using the argument that secrecy and classification is paramount because of protection from angered countries:
You severely underestimate the ability of most countries and their militaries to analyze what has happened and by whom it was carried out.
Believe me, the USA aren’t the only country by a long shot possessing extremely capable spy agencies, military special forces and investigators. Especially authoritarian countries are quite good in those areas for obvious reasons.
So reporting on highly secret missions with enough time having passed serves two purposes:
a) it keeps the population informed and, more importantly, b) may deter from being to gung-ho because only successful missions are being touted, painting a false-positive picture of success rates.
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karl commented September 5, 2025
k
karl
denver ·
Sept. 5, 2025
Hmm. So the idea was that no one would notice a nuclear submarine almost two football fields long and a couple of mini subs, one of which apparently had interior lights that could be seen from outside the sub. Plus, the operators had night vision goggles that couldn’t see people in wet suits. I’m not sure we’re getting our moneys worth from the trillion dollar milatary.
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Scott commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
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Scott
New York ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@NA I would agree as well. Yet, I would equally hope that internal processes were re-evaluated. This had to be approved up and down the chain of command. What role, if any, did legal affairs play a role? It is becoming clear that an ongoing pattern of behavior is detached from the rule of law.
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UES commented September 5, 2025
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UES
NYC ·
Sept. 5, 2025
Trump approved a covert action to plant listening devices on North Korean soil while knowing it could trigger a war if the operation was discovered. I thought he was opposed to war unless we were attacked here at home. I guess he lied.
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Bobcat commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
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Bobcat
Massachusetts ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@Mary Smith I agree with you, unfortunately not only the "president" thinks he is above the law, so does our Supreme Court.
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George commented September 5, 2025
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George
Houston ,TX ·
Sept. 5, 2025
Fabulous reporting by The NY Times which is essential to our Democracy. This type of research and reporting especially on national security topics is rare. There used to be many great news organizations in America. Today the Times is one of a few remaining that does this type of work. I am a loyal reader who greatly appreciates the NYT.
Not surprisingly the first Trump Administration never informed Congress as required by law. There were a few serious people in the Executive branch during that time. Today the entire Cabinet and all advisors are loyal only to DJT. I shudder think of what they do today and keep secret. What we know if is bad enough.
Today I’m reminded of the basic decency of our Presidents-until now. The framers depended on separation of powers and the law to prevent an autocrat from taking power. Sadly the Republican Congress is spineless and not exercising their responsibility to check the Executive and the Supreme Court majority is ruling based on partisan ideology not the law and Constitution. God save us.
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David commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
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David
New York ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@Earthling the truth always matters. Blissful ignorance is not an excuse for incuriosity. What trump did here was illegal. That is unacceptable and MUST be exposed.
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Ralph commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
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Ralph
San Mateo ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@JayWhat did the Seals do that was so brave? Basically, they were heavily-armed burglars breaking into a building that they thought was empty. They then committed murder when some innocent people happened on them. All the while, they were backed up by a nuclear sub. The operation may have been creative, but bravery had nothing to do with it.
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Not So Sure commented September 5, 2025
Not So Sure
Not So Sure
SF ·
Sept. 5, 2025
There is an even more rogue head of state than Kim-Jong un, and that is Donald J. Trump.
He likes nothing better than to have full military resources at his personal disposal, and with himself as the decision maker, skipping important consultations in the decision-making. And he doesn’t brief Congress.
This is a fascinating and chilling story. Excellent reporting. The public needs to know. And now North Korea knows. The world knows about this attempt and its utter failure.
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D A commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
D
D A
Monterey ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@Patrick Healy So what your reporting is a bunch of grown adults snuck into a country, messed up 3 times, and then MURDERED for what seems innocent people because they got spooked, and said it’s justified. I cannot believe people are defending this event. I understand keeping military things confidential, but c’mon why were you guys there. We have nuclear weapons and we don’t go blasting them b/c we know we will get nuked back. It’s like a neuron and the all or one nothing principle. Same for goes for NK they now they will get annihilated in a few minutes if the shoot off missiles at us. They’re just bolstering them up b/c of their ego. I understand the US wants to know what Kim is doing, but still all the money wasted on this event could’ve been idk used to bolster up our cybersecurity from salt typhoon. From you know, hackers from China who have access to a lot of private messages from regular and higher up in security clearance Americans. Or the Russian hackers who have access to court records which can expose informants. We seem to be awfully focused on wiretapping others and not defending our own country from wiretaps from outside influences. I’m glad they reported this event, b/c I as a citizen should know where tax dollars are being spent. As well as the possibility of a fight occurring b/c grown adults got spooked.
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Maybe, maybe not commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
M
Maybe, maybe not
New York ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@Patrick Healy
This story, which holds the government's feet to the fire, demonstrates why our country needs freedom of the press and the difference between The New York Times and most of the rest of the news media that simply repeat stories that everybody else is reporting. Thank you.
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Ryan commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
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Ryan
Nebraska ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@Bill Walker I think they made a very good point as to why this kind of reporting is important. It's not because it's interesting to readers.
"Several of those people said they were discussing details about the mission because they were concerned that Special Operations failures are often hidden by government secrecy. If the public and policymakers become aware only of high-profile successes, such as the raid that killed bin Laden in Pakistan, they may underestimate the extreme risks that American forces undertake."
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Jay S commented September 5, 2025
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Jay S
South Florida ·
Sept. 5, 2025
Perhaps the most important element of this story is that no one in Congress is notified of these escapades. In today's political atmosphere, it wouldn't much matter. The GOP dominant Congress has evidenced no control over what Trump does. Therefore it's better that the public knows. Perhaps it will help influence our coming vote to change things on the Hill so that if Congress does discover such happenings, those responsible are held accountable.
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Mainer commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
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Mainer
Portland, Maine ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@NA Please. This was an illegal operation by a lawless administration. It and every other illegal action needs to see the light of day. Not that anyone is going to do anything about it. But at least we know and maybe they'll think twice about doing it again.
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john commented September 5, 2025
j
john
Sanya ·
Sept. 5, 2025
Slaughtering American fishermen off the coast of California to plant an electronic spying device would be considered an act of war.
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Carlito Brigante commented September 5, 2025
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Carlito Brigante
Cleveland, Ohio ·
Sept. 5, 2025
This was a foolhardy and unneeded provocation with a unpredictable nuclear-armed adversary. It was not worth the risk and as it turns out it was a disaster. If the USA wants to plant listening devices go do it to some less dangerous actors but in the case of North Korea this decision was unhinged. The upside to this action is you get to hear Kim's phone calls and the downside is WWIII. My goodness the risk-reward on that was surely foolish now wasn't it ?
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Lisa P commented September 5, 2025
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Lisa P
Pittsburgh ·
Sept. 5, 2025
…and this president is capable of the complex thought and nuance required to oversee operations and decisions like these?
I’ve never felt more in danger in my life.
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Eir commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
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Eir
Nj ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@Earthling
If you wish that please go live in China or any other authoritarian state.
We live in a democracy where each and every one of us are complicit and responsible for our governments actions.
How do you intend to exercise your right to vote while driving blind?
How do you intend to take responsibility or choose the right leaders?
Knowing stuff is scary. It might even help our adversaries. But this is the choice you make. You can’t have the freedoms democracy offers, while absconding on your responsibility-to know, speak, & make judgement on them.
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Michael commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
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Michael
Burnsville MN ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@Mary Smith Well it seems the Supreme Court has made it clear at least ONE PERSON is indeed above the law
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Chris commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
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Chris
NYC ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@DL Wrong. Six years later, when the mission cannot be compromised and not naming the particular sailors, is absolutely appropriate under the circumstances. Sunlight is the best disinfectant.
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KB commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
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KB
Eugene, OR ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@Hugh There is no way this is news to NK. They found a boatful of dead citizens or had a boatful go missing and you think they don’t know?
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EJ commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
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EJ
Vermont ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@MG yup. Yes. Exactly. Right before I read your comment, I was imagining that somewhere right now, someone in the self-aggrandized department of war, is pitching the idea of building ‘a big wooden badger.’
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Carolina commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
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Carolina
Brazil ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@NA, History teaches us that unchecked secrecy rarely ends well—it usually paves the way for far worse abuses.
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Loren Nordic commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
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Loren Nordic
A little here, a little there ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@NA
Look at this from the nature of the beast in charge. He approved this for his own glory and to mirror what President Obama authorized in the hunting down of bin Ladin.
So, he ordered the mission in direct violation of laws at many levels to make himself look like a leader. The word pathetic is appropriate.
If this had succeeded he would have been bragging about this in due time. This would not have been a secret listening device for long with the loudmouth in charge.
Imagine the disastrous results if the SEAL team had been captured. Look at who was in charge at the time and tell me if he would accept blame and responsibility. I think all evidence of the last ten years indicates the answer is no.
This was a hair brain scheme from the start. The risk/reward ratio was similar to investing your money into a trump casino.
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Marge Keller commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
Marge Keller
Marge Keller
Midwest ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@Howie Lisnoff
"The Trump administration did not notify key members of Congress who oversee intelligence operations, before or after the mission. The lack of notification may have violated the law."
He probably didn't want to notify members of Congress because he probably would not have gotten enough support to go ahead and he probably failed to notify Congress because of impeachment concerns. I keep asking myself what else has and does this guy continue to do that violates the law?
ANY other president would have been impeached for these actions.
Since when is there an expiration date on impeachment behavior?
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Jeri P commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
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Jeri P
California ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@MG
Yes, I am a liberal lifelong Democrat. I have lived through several Republican administrations during my long time on this earth. But this Trump and his boot-licker associates are a whole different ballgame, a very dangerous one. (Anyone see Robt Kennedy Jr.'s testimony?)
We all know Trump is a nut job but he has surrounded himself with diagnosable sociopaths. Previous Republican administrations have angered me at times but I never feared them. Now, both those emotions are in play.
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kate commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
k
kate
MA ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@Hugh We are already paying the price, whether or not the general public knows about it or not. The President should have consulted the relevant members of Congress. When missions are done in secrecy, without consulation, who knows whether they are justified or not?
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TJ Fractured commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
T
TJ Fractured
Des Moines ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@Patrick Healy
This was after the love letters between trump and Kim Jong Un stopped, I assume.
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EJS commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
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EJS
Granite City, Illinois ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@Patrick Healy Did the New York Times consider whether publishing this story would inform a previously uninformed North Korea of our acts of war? What did you do and what did you conclude?
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Keef re Cucamonga commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
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Keef re Cucamonga
LA ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@JB probably good for the US public to know that we have an enormous branch of our military that is essentially a global assassination team that answers only to Trump.
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Paco commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
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Paco
Santa Barbara ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@Howie Lisnoff, I am reminded of the Neil Young song with the line: “tin soldiers and Nixon coming.” Trump like a child will play with his little tin soldiers.
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Claire commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
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Claire
D.C. ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@Mary Smith:
“ No President is above the law as much as they think they are.”
Have you not been paying attention since January 20, 2025? Do you not know that the SCOTUS has basically given him carte blanche to do whatever he wants, in the name of “national security”?
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david gallardo commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
d
david gallardo
san luis obispo ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@Patrick Healy. Even if the commandos had accomplished their mission, it would not have been a "big success". The goal of our relations with N. Korea should be a long term peace deal that minimizes risk of nuclear war. This operation only heightens the risk of the unthinkable (nuclear war). Recall how the U2 incident damaged US - Soviet relations for years. It destroyed peace efforts at that time. My God, dont we EVER learn!
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RICK W commented September 5, 2025
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RICK W
Indiana ·
Sept. 5, 2025
President Biden has been harshly criticized by Mr Trump on many levels including being *Unfit to Serve * as POTUS. Biden played by the rules, informing Congress as appropriate. Trump has always avoided cooperation and often LIED. This veiled mission is just the tip of the proverbial Iceberg. What else is he keeping secret? Each new day brings concerning new evidence of his aggressive plans, not only for the world, but mostly our own Democracy.
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Fielding Mellish commented September 5, 2025
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Fielding Mellish
Illinois ·
Sept. 5, 2025
Absent a declaration of war or Congressional authority of any kind, the incumbent recently gave the order to bomb Iran. Now we learn of this previously unknown matter.
The President has sole authority to launch nuclear weapons. Such an order can be given absent Congressional approval. The chilling scenario depicted in this article gets one to start thinking. How does the bombing of Iran look now, particularly when our elected representatives have virtually ignored their role in approving the march to war?
Sleep well, folks.
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ACM commented September 5, 2025
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ACM
Massachusetts ·
Sept. 5, 2025
I don't think Trump is going to be happy with this piece, but so be it. My main takeaway is that we have many parallel governments embedded in this administration all working on things that could trigger whatever, and with a gambler at the helm acting out on impulses and "TV ready footage", it booggles the mind what they are working on now.
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Doug commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
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Doug
Virginia ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@MJM - it was a small, unarmed fishing boat. It was a coincidence. The SEALS verified this. It was in the article. They killed three unarmed fishermen, not some elite NK patrol boat.
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Kevin commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
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Kevin
Colorado ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@Hugh Clearly it is not new to NK. Read the article, not just the title.
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AH commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
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AH
Burbank, CA ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@MG
I really appreciate the way you captured both the beauty of ordinary life and the absurdity of the larger forces at play. It’s grounding to remember that the simple, everyday moments — caring for family, connecting with nature, sharing small joys — are what truly give life meaning, even in the face of uncertainty and the chaos created by others. Your words are a reminder that sanity, compassion, and presence in the here-and-now are our strongest anchors.
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Rita commented September 5, 2025
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Rita
Germany ·
Sept. 5, 2025
This is the kind of articles I think many people subscribe to the NYTimes for, truly high quality investigative journalism. The level of detail is incredible. Congrats to all the writers involved!
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Eric commented September 5, 2025
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Eric
CT ·
Sept. 5, 2025
I am grateful that we have these brave men willing to do the difficult work to keep this country safe. This reporting simply undermines national security and harms our international interests. Why report on it? It simply serves the interests of our enemies.
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DL commented September 5, 2025
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DL
Westchester ·
Sept. 5, 2025
The Times may think it and its reporters are heroes for publishing this article, but it accomplishes nothing, and can have very deleterious effects in many ways. Nothing is accomplished here, except possibly humiliating the country that provides free speech to its citizens and the press. Foolish.
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Aiden commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
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Aiden
Maine ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@Sam, diving at night with a flashlight makes some shellfish attracted to the light, which makes them much easier to catch. It's a very common way to catch shellfish, especially if you don't have modern/fancy fishing equipment (which I can't imagine the North Koreans have).
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EWH commented September 5, 2025
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EWH
Olympia WA ·
Sept. 5, 2025
I guess this is why Trump is renaming the Defense Department the Department of War so he can engage in more of this activity but not make it covert. I only hope we don’t end up with World War III.
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David N. commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
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David N.
Florida Voter ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@NA You say that you don't know what this reporting is meant to achieve. What is achieved is that citizens know that another crackpot military scheme resulted in the death and mutilation of innocent fisherman. As citizens, we all bear some responsibility for those needless deaths.
People need to know that special forces sometimes engage in criminal acts that are covered up. Disclosure to the public doesn't reveal anything that the North Koreans already knew. Particularly concerning is that law-mandated Congressional overseers were kept in the dark, so that the North Koreans know more about what our military does than Congress: that's a crime. Another crime revealed.
I am a strong believer in the need for secrecy in government. But sometimes the secrecy is simply a way to cover-up crimes. Draw the line.
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skm commented September 5, 2025
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skm
coventry, ny ·
Sept. 5, 2025
Thank you for bringing this out into the open. That’s your job.
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Mike McGovern commented September 5, 2025
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Mike McGovern
Canada ·
Sept. 5, 2025
I notice very few of these comments if any have discussed the murder of innocent North Koreans on a fishing vessel. The article mentions that the original investigation of the incident stated the murders were proper due to rules of war, whatever that means. I imagine none of the soldiers or planners involved suffered any consequences for these killings.
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David commented September 5, 2025
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David
Virginia ·
Sept. 5, 2025
The desire to have surveillance is not an excuse for killing innocent people.
This is straight up murder and no amount of bureaucratic military regulations changes that.
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Colin Walters commented September 5, 2025
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Colin Walters
Sydney, Australia ·
Sept. 5, 2025
Astonishing, the US sent commando’s to a remote beach in North Korea and they slaughtered three innocent fishermen and then went home. And what about the slaughtered Yemeni villagers? Who is safe from this country?
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Plant Lover commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
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Plant Lover
Iowa ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@MG
I totally agree it is sheer insanity. These are the same men that worry about women taking innocent lives with abortions while they go around the world killing innocents, like this week where they blasted apart a fishing boat in the open ocean claiming it was carrying drugs.
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Greatlaker commented September 5, 2025
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Greatlaker
PA ·
Sept. 5, 2025
One can argue that perhaps the entire world should not have been made aware of this expedition. But I can’t find any good argument why Congress should not have informed of it. The latter behavior is a cause for grave concern and reflects on an utter disregard for law and protocol and must be brought to light
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Muleman commented September 5, 2025
Muleman
Muleman
Colorado ·
Sept. 5, 2025
So trump says "I know nothing." That's typical trump incredibility. He "knows" only what he wants to know. Meantime we have a 100% incompetent secretary of defense and ousted military leaders.
Can you think of a time when our nation has been less secure?
I can't - and can only hope that this story will finally get republic party congressional leaders off their duffs - demanding a return to a sense of normalcy. Chances of that?
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Jay commented September 5, 2025
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Jay
Texas ·
Sept. 5, 2025
Great reporting. Important story. Thanks for telling it.
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MG commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
MG
MG
Toronto ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@FL1 Using the status quo to justify the status quo is simply a shortsighted closed circuit. Yes, I 'get' the sheer 'practicality' of what you are saying: the world's full of bad guys and yadda yadda yadda. Well, I've spent considerable time in South China (among other places) and yeah, folks there want exactly the same things we want. And if it weren't for the neurotic, comic book worthy characters that are supposedly running the world they might very well have those 'luxuries'.
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David commented September 5, 2025
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David
New York ·
Sept. 5, 2025
Everything trump does makes things worse. Everything.
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JeffH commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
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JeffH
Chicago ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@Patrick HealyI appreciate your comments. I'm curious why a freelance journalist was involved in the Times reporting.
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PeterH commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
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PeterH
Florida ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@Patrick Healy
Americans can always count on detailed excellent reporting from the New York Times! Terrific article!
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Joe S. commented September 5, 2025
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Joe S.
PA ·
Sept. 5, 2025
Decades ago I was a USAF lieutenant with a Top Secret clearance. After a few years it occurred to me that much of the classified information I saw was classified only to hide embarrassing details from public scrutiny. I’ve been skeptical about “classified” information ever since.
This is a valuable article that more than justifies my NY Times subscription.
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Tamas commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
T
Tamas
CA ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@Liam: The risk of something going awry in national security is much higher and dangerous when public is unaware of the actions a leader has taken. The secrecy may embolden military complex / leader to take extreme actions that may put the nation security at high risks. Yes, I agree there is possibility our adversaries know little bit more but they would know anyway after the operation bungled up. Don’t forget they have their spies and intelligence to monitor us. In my view allowing a leader unaccountable, unfettered power without public being aware of his/her actions is way, way more riskier than some military information. There are always better, improved ways to run an operation.
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Gregory commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
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Gregory
Houston, TX ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@FL1
Your reasoning has been the go-to defense of any and all military ventures. It's an effective way of shutting down any evaluation of the success or usefulness of such ventures, because you invoke an existential argument: "the reason you get to worry...."
I disagree. We get to "worry" because we defend a free press and free speech, and we won't be dissuaded by your fear-mongering.
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LEGOlass commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
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LEGOlass
New York ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@NA The North Koreans already figured out what happened, I am guessing, back in 2019. The press' job is to inform the public and as the article states, when only successful -- and classified I might add, like the Bin Laden assassination -- missions are announced, we are left with a warped sense of security.
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Chester commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
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Chester
NJ ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@A Trump was president at the time of this mission. Details matter.
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American commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
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American
Northeast ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@Sarah I don't think anyone really cares about them... and that exactly is the problem. From the comfort of our dining rooms, with our hot coffee at the side, we are incredibly callous about the loss of innocent lives as long as the American agenda is in play.
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MJM - commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
M
MJM -
Newfoundland, Canada ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@Hugh - The part where the boat shows up as soon as they land on the shore says the North Korean military knows about this very well.
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Coming to America commented September 5, 2025
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Coming to America
World ·
Sept. 5, 2025
Sending soldiers to a foreign land in a time of peace, and killing civilian residents of that land in a time of peace, is beyond any and all law.
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Bob S commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
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Bob S
Monterey, Ca ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@NA
Nonsense
N Korea already knew of the incursion. As far as how they reacted, it is obvious that restarting their nuclear and missile programs so soon after talks broke down with Trump was a direct result of the failed US incursion. And it certainly brought the recluse nation closer to China and Russia, which we are witnessing on the world stage today. Why shouldn’t the American public know about this? Everyone else does!
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KD commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
K
KD
Maryland ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@NA North Korea already knows all the details. They have intelligence departments etc., just like us.
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Mac commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
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Mac
New England ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@Mary Smith. Because the fact that the mission failed would show weakness, which is woke.
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Jim commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
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Jim
Houston ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@Patrick Healy
I appreciate your reporting, and it is indeed timely. To those who would prefer it to be quashed in the interest of "reducing future threats": Our government has a history of blowing vessels out of the water without intercepting and questioning them. I hope to learn the details of who was **actually** killed in the recent engagement of the Venezuelan vessel in the Caribbean. Our soon-to-be-named "War Department" is a dangerous ship of fools, not acting in my interest or anyone else's.
Jim
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Jonpender commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
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Jonpender
Seattle ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@Earthling I’m sure that the North Koreans have had other incursions onto their coastline and that they were able to conclude that the divers did not commit suicide. There is also the location of some nearby communications infrastructure. I really doubt that they needed the help of the NYT to figure this one out. This articles exposes the incompetence of the trump administration which glorifies self-proclaimed successes and conceals failures resulting from their contempt for planning processes.
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Dan Frazier commented September 5, 2025
Dan Frazier
Dan Frazier
Boca Raton ·
Sept. 5, 2025
The failure to notify certain committees in Congress may be illegal. But the Supreme Court ruled that a president's official actions while in office cannot be prosecuted. But this official action happened before the court made that ruling. Does the ruling retroactively apply to this potentially criminal action by the president? Maybe that was the whole point of the ruling -- to give Trump blanket immunity for all his official actions prior to the ruling?
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Mike commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
M
Mike
NJ ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@FL1
The point is that people in the Mideast, Myanmar, North Africa, Northern Mexico, Southern China, Ukraine, Venezuela etc. are all subject to the whims of "neurotic men" and their "harebrained, comic-book worthy schemes of world domination." As are we. It has ever been thus. Average people dragged into wars to satisfy some lunatic nobleman's idea of grandeur and power.
As to people not being in it for the pay or notoriety, I'm not sure to whom you are referring here. If it's to DJT, I can assure you, he's only in it for the money and attention. If you are referring to the troops, well, there is a lot more that motivates people than money, some good and some bad. As someone with a lot of relatives in the military, I can tell you that that particular subset of people has plenty of (usually) men serving whose motives are far from honorable. Some are on a power trip, some enjoy violence, some have twisted ideas of American greatness that veer into xenophobia and racism.
Anyway, MG is right. We are all at the whim of the worse of humanity (and those who enable them).
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PLombard commented September 5, 2025
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PLombard
Ferndale, MI ·
Sept. 5, 2025
Thanks for sharing the story, NYT. You can’t kill people without consequences but as you said, people were promoted. The country shouldn’t crow about successes but keep failures quiet.
Now let’s have more detail on the recent military killing of the Venezuelan people on the boat, allegedly smuggling drugs - ordinarily a law enforcement issue.
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David commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
D
David
UK ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@Earthling If this were about a single event gone wrong then I'd be more inclined to agree, but if lack of exposure of a series of failures means worse oversight of the potential risks and rewards of the missions, and more failed missions that might imperil the nation's interests, then it seems justified.
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Salix commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
S
Salix
Sunset Park, Brooklyn ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@Sarah
Yeah but...some people thought the SEALs were brave to shoot unarmed fishermen & then sink the bodies.
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Joe commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
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Joe
TX ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@Liam The fact that our SEALS use mini-subs is not exactly sensitive. Case in point, Google "SEAL mini-sub".
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Bad Robot commented September 5, 2025
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Bad Robot
Miami ·
Sept. 5, 2025
So on a freezing winter night innocent starving North Koreans diving for shellfish were murdered because American paranoia fueled by American Exceptionalism (read "corporate and billionaire greed and arrogance") needed a listening device to be planted on the shores on North Korea.
A very disturbing interview/ commentary published by RAND suggested "regime change" through the use of military and diplomatic coercion (https://www.rand.org/pubs/commentary/2024/09/north-korea-explained-what-americans-need-to-know.html).
With all that's happening in the so called middle east, why should North Korea care whether the US think its nuclear capability is a threat, when even its "greatest ally" and only democratic and moral country and army in the world does not abide by basic international law?
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Ed Clark commented September 5, 2025
E
Ed Clark
Virginia ·
Sept. 5, 2025
I’m a fan of the Times, but this should not have been published. It supports North Korean messaging, it adds potential friction to the U.S.-ROK alliance, it verifies NSA’s limitations, it provides insight into US species methods and capabilities (or the lack). It jeopardizes any possible future US-DPRK negotiations. Those are just issues I can think of off the top of my head. Maybe just once, let’s do what’s in the national interest? And no, the public can’t always have the right to know.
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JV commented September 5, 2025
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JV
New England ·
Sept. 5, 2025
The Times' justification for publishing this story is weak. The public needs to know that the military conducts secret missions and that they are not always successful? Duh. Trump went around Congress. Sadly, hardly news anymore. Neither of these reasons justify the threats to our security this article could spark. Irresponsible.
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N commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
N
N
Anytown, USA ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@Mary Smith Check your notes. You’re talking about a man who, just last week, publicly said in so many words, “I can do anything I want.” I don’t think anyone would question that that’s exactly what he not only meant but fully intends on continuing, unchecked. He literally said the quiet part (which was never really quiet) out loud. What is still befuddling about the fact that he demonstrates no ethics, morals, compassion, filter, humanity, sense of decency, or, least of all, transparency?!?
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glennmr commented September 5, 2025
glennmr
glennmr
Planet Earth ·
Sept. 5, 2025
"The mission had the potential to provide the United States with a stream of valuable intelligence."
It is difficult to see what valuable intelligence would be discovered by listening to Kim. Any information would not change what NK is doing and not change any US position.
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Sam commented September 5, 2025
S
Sam
Ithaca, NY ·
Sept. 5, 2025
Diving for shellfish in the middle of the night...
I don't know anything about diving for shellfish... but does that make any sense at all?
Also, you will find no one more anti-Trump or more anti-military-action-without-congressional-approval than me. But even I find the decision to release this a little weird. Oh, so we have special forces out there doing crazy dangerous high stakes things to gain intel on the biggest threats to the US and our allies do we? I would not have imagined!
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mef commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
m
mef
nj ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@MG The boy-men playing "heroes" may be the death of all of us yet. Yes, there are real existential dangers to our country and our civilization. Our own empire builders and their minions are among them.
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DisillusionedScientist commented September 5, 2025
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DisillusionedScientist
Philadelphia ·
Sept. 5, 2025
This article is written backwards.
The main points here aren't the specifics of the failed raid in North Korea. It's the trend of SEAL missions to perhaps unnecessary complexity, and that their use cases expanded under the 1st Trump administration, while their oversight and greenlighting process decreased significantly.
Low bar to use and excessive complexity raise the chances that failures like this raid in North Korea will occur. There are structural issues that lead to such failures; they require civilian and military stakeholders to acknowledge and address them in good faith.
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Captain Jack commented September 5, 2025
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Captain Jack
NE NJ ·
Sept. 5, 2025
"a life of perpetual fear and tension; a burden of arms draining the wealth and the labor of all peoples; a wasting of strength that defies the American system or the Soviet system or any system to achieve true abundance and happiness for the peoples of this earth.
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone.
It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children.
The cost of one modern heavy bomber is this: a modern brick school in more than 30 cities.
It is two electric power plants, each serving a town of 60,000 population.
It is two fine, fully equipped hospitals. It is some 50 miles of concrete highway.
We pay for a single fighter plane with a half million bushels of wheat.
An excerpts from President Eisenhower's "Chance for Peace", also called "The Cross of Iron" speech he delivered to the American people at the time of Stalin's death.
What a far cry to what we are being told now.
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GretchenFoobar commented September 5, 2025
G
GretchenFoobar
WI ·
Sept. 5, 2025
Publishing this article gets us what? People are overlooking the fact that if North Korea had no idea this happened, they certainly do now. The importance of this being published while we have the same President that green-lighted the mission cannot be understated.
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Kathy commented September 5, 2025
K
Kathy
SF ·
Sept. 5, 2025
Republicans insist that they have to take food from children because the government does not have enough money.
When they signed their budget bill, and confirmed for their owners that they would be taking another$3.5 trillion of our dollars, they cheered lustily as they voted on it.
Then they went out to their constituents and explained that there’s no money for food or medicine - no US AID even for citizens - and they are so very sorry.
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Rho commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
Rho
Rho
One of the Springfields ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@Hugh
Why 20 years later and not 6 years later? What is the qualitative difference between those 2 delays?
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Inch Gleich commented September 5, 2025
I
Inch Gleich
Messier 31 ·
Sept. 5, 2025
Well that’s reassuring.
Elite forces so cold-blooded that they mistakenly murder a bunch of civilians in a foreign country and then stick a shiv in the victims lungs to cover their tracks.
I wonder if they’ve developed any psychological problems after the event.
I wonder if they’re standing behind me in a Starbucks line-up.
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F Sinclaire commented September 5, 2025
F
F Sinclaire
Maine ·
Sept. 5, 2025
The trump administration's whining about breach of secrecy here is based solely on the fact that the mission failed. If the mission had succeeded, he would be shouting about it on Fox and everywhere else. And then blame Democrats for breaking the secrecy.
When will America realize we have elected an amateur to the White House whose oath of office is to himself and himself alone. Maybe he's a nice guy who means well. I don't know. But he's a child.
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jaidev commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
j
jaidev
india ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@NA it'll definitely not improve relations with adversaries specially when the President just the other day after the military parade in China said he has a good equation with all the three dictators!!.
but this kind of reporting will definitely maybe act as a deterrent when these kind of military operations are planned against friendly countries.
a military strike was carried out on a boat which was supposedly carrying "narcotics" and the President himself tweeted the information proudly! some transperancy
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Don Yuan commented September 5, 2025
D
Don Yuan
NYC ·
Sept. 5, 2025
It's easy to criticize the deaths of those North Korean civilians, when most of us have never been in the military or faced that kind of danger.
But it is disturbing nonetheless. If a North Korean team had infiltrated U.S. waters and killed American civilians by accident, how would we feel about that? Would we shrug it off as "the cost of war?" At what point do we say the collateral damage is unacceptable?
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David commented September 5, 2025
D
David
Ottawa ·
Sept. 5, 2025
I doubt that President Trump will see this story as being in the national interest - the nytimes needs to be ready for some form of retribution. Keep up the good work and this is why I subscribe.
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Mark commented September 5, 2025
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Mark
South Plainfield NJ ·
Sept. 5, 2025
My father who was a retired army ranger and did tours in the first iraq war and other classified missions once told me the seals are the brand name of special forces. They are held up as the gold standard as near perfect. When in reality they have the same or worse success rate as other special forces.
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Hc commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
H
Hc
Seattle ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@Hugh Public needs to know if what the president, possibly illegally, is gonna put us and our allies in South Korea in danger. The public needs to know how reckless this president was at the time, and what other reckless things he could be doing as we speak. You may not care, but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be allowed to care by hiding information like this.
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Chino commented September 5, 2025
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Chino
Va. ·
Sept. 5, 2025
Now we are in the grip of another Trump administration with no adults in the situation room and a slavish Congress in charge of key over sight committees. The intelligence agencies have been ravaged, undercut by the likes of Laura Loomer and Tuksi Gabbard. With the loss of experience and wisdom in the pentagon and the silencing of critics we face the greater possibility of mission failure. You don’t just elect the president you elect his chosen men and women as well.
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MBK commented September 5, 2025
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MBK
NYC ·
Sept. 5, 2025
How is this story in the “public interest”? Aside from infuriating the North Koreans, what was the goal here? The most astounding piece of info here is that Kim has 50 nuclear weapons that can reach the U.S. So if we have to try dangerous military operations to help provide more intelligence on a lunatic regime, then that’s what we have to do.
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Steve Siegel commented September 5, 2025
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Steve Siegel
Wilmington, DE ·
Sept. 5, 2025
To state what should be obvious, no country has the right to invade another country to plant listening devices, nor to kill its unarmed civilians in the process. Stop for a second and ask what would happen if some other country did this to the U.S. There would be demands for blood. But somehow when the U.S. does it, a large part of officialdom and the population find it "justifiable". The double standard is beyond belief.
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Captain Jack commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
C
Captain Jack
NE NJ ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@Earthling do you not think the North Koreans and the rest of the world know about this and who did it by now? The only people left in the dark are the people of the USA.
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Ed commented September 5, 2025
E
Ed
Austin, TX ·
Sept. 5, 2025
But now they know, if they didn't before!
One might outline the broad outline and the risk without being so specific? Reporting on intelligence operations overseas is really not quite the same as reporting on domestic or foreign policy or domestic bad behavior by the government.
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Oscar commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
O
Oscar
Garbage Can ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@Jordan Amen to that. He bombed a Venezuelan boat filled with lord-knows-who, based on nothing more than his need to look like a tough guy. Anyone he doesn't like is "Tren de Aragua," these days. He is creating his own para-military force right here at home, and not one Republican has made a peep about it. Authoritarianism (and mindless worship of all things military, except for veterans' healthcare) runs deep and wide among GOPers.
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Poncho commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
P
Poncho
Tulsa ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@American It’s incredibly sad that I had to scroll down many upvoted comments squabbling about secrecy to see even one acknowledge the innocent civilians that were massacred because of a bungled mission and whose bodies were no doubt dumped in the ocean. Who’s to say their families ever learned their fate.
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JG commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
J
JG
NYC ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@NA The North Koreans know, so that cat's already out of the bag. Given the lawless nature of the Trump administration, this could be a harbinger of far more radical and risky potential acts of war in the future. While the GOP laptop Congress will never rein Trump in, good to warn the rest of us about what could happen.
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Real Person commented September 5, 2025
R
Real Person
vermont ·
Sept. 5, 2025
It is always amazing to see what the military does in our name. I wonder about other operations we have yet to hear about or won't ever hear about. We red about these operations careless to the innocent that were killed. It was just reported Trump will rename the department of defense the department of war. Wy not just call it the Department of Death and merge it with Health and Human services.
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jack commented September 5, 2025
j
jack
south carolina ·
Sept. 5, 2025
Killing 3 North Koreans in a secret mission for no apparent reason with no beneficial result. Killing 11 Venezuelans without due process because they were allegedly drug runners. Militarizing the streets with masked thugs. It is all part of a pattern. Trump and his minions think they can do anything, shoot anyone, prison anyone on a whim without anyone being able to stop them. How did we get here???
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Saluda commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
S
Saluda
SC ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@Jennifer Having an unfit, erratic bully as Commander in Chief ,and a Sunday talk show host who is afraid of words, women, and brown people as head of the DOD, puts SEALs and every other military service member at risk every day.
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tee sabo commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
t
tee sabo
nyc ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@scbarfly The NK government cant come out publicly and say that their vaunted security apparatus was penetrated by a few armed men from the US Navy. I expect the NK government has known someone under the US command did this, and not likely the SK.
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DL commented September 5, 2025
D
DL
Santa Cruz ·
Sept. 5, 2025
I think the decision to publish this story, with the details it discloses, cannot be defended as "in the public interest." If the phrase had meaning in the matter of the Pentagon Papers, no equivalent interest appears here. The Pentagon Papers bore upon past judgments made in the course of a very public and much contested war. The Seal Team Mission exposed in this story was urgent, defensible and dangerous. It was secret for a reason: the techniques, skills, devices and so on necessary to mount the operation should be protected against exposure to the nation's adversaries. Every advanced nation on the face of the planet must engage in actions of this sort from time to time; every such nation does so. Publishing the details of this operation at such extravagant length is fully equivalent to publishing news of troop movements in war time. In either case, the publication risks the loss of lives of our forces and jeopardizes our prospects for survival in future contests with our adversaries.
I am a first amendment lawyer now living in retirement. I have always been a strong proponent for vigorous latitude for freedom of expression. But I have never been a fanatic. Nor has my experience given me infinite confidence in the discretion exerecised by editors.
Meanwhile, it is idle to speak of law in the clandestine world of global conflict. There must be room for necessary operations we have no taste for. Some degree of secrecy is inevitable if we hope to survive.
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Altina Waller commented September 5, 2025
A
Altina Waller
Willington, CT ·
Sept. 5, 2025
Does anyone care about those 11 shell fishermen killed? When the US does this kind of thing, which it has many, many times, we ignore it as a "mistake". But these are the lives of 11 men and the impact on their families. When our enemies do this sort of thing we are outraged and focused on the immoral attack on innocent civilians and their families.
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Hola Mar commented September 5, 2025
Hola Mar
Hola Mar
Seattle ·
Sept. 5, 2025
So they just murdered a bunch of civilians in a blatant violation of every international law.
Do Americans think what it would be like if some country did it to them?
Like imagine if a bunch of poor fishermen in Maine got murdered by some special force "i can't believe it's not a death squad" who were performing illegal military activity against the US.
We do it everywhere around the world, and then wonder why people keep burning Americans flags.
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say what commented September 5, 2025
s
say what
NY,NY ·
Sept. 5, 2025
Today, trump said he doesn't know anything about this mission, which occurred during his first term. This absurd statement is his typical response to events he wants to wish away. If he doesn't have the 'stuff' to acknowledge actions he surely approved or, if those in his administration were allowed to conduct such missions without his knowledge and consent, he is unfit for office and should be 'fired.'
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Leninzen commented September 5, 2025
L
Leninzen
New Jersey ·
Sept. 5, 2025
Trump calling the shots on military operations like this plus the reputation the seal teams have earned for being over confident in their abilities seems like a nightmare scenario. One cannot ignore the bravery of these teams, but I fear that bravery being exploited and wasted on stupid stuff by the current F team in place in govt.
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LM. commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
L
LM.
Florida ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@Patrick Healy Hence the need for Congressional oversight/input?
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Dan commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
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Dan
Dallas, TX ·
Sept. 5, 2025
"Officials said they were discussing classified details" - Those officials should be identified and removed from any positions related to national security or DOD matters. THAT would be much more in the public interest than divulging classified information to the WORLD.
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Alfalfa commented September 5, 2025
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Alfalfa
Madrid ·
Sept. 5, 2025
The killing of civilians minding their business is covered by the rules of engagement according to the aggressor, which would have named it "terrorism" if it was the other way around.
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Porkpotpie commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
P
Porkpotpie
Niagara Falls, Ca ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@FL1
Disagree sir, his criticism was directed at the policymakers and the self-sustaining command structure that creates this perpetual motion machine of madness. I guarantee the vast majority of the populations you described are going about their day best they can, feeding the cat, contemplating the sky and loving their family members is also THEIR main luxury of life. Maybe we need to all seek a better way to interact and focus resources on that concept
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Jordan commented September 5, 2025
J
Jordan
MD ·
Sept. 5, 2025
"The lack of notification may have violated the law."
If something happens during a Trump administration, you can pretty muchl count on it being illegal.
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Manuel Ramรญrez commented September 5, 2025
M
Manuel Ramรญrez
Indiana ·
Sept. 5, 2025
I recognize the value of free press and right to free speech enshrined in the 1st Amendment of our Constitution and expanded by the Supreme Court decisions over the years (e.g., the NYTimes v. Sullivan, and NYTimes Co. v. United States) to provide to society, particularly in the face of authoritarian governments where there’s little to no mea culpa, some checks to call out the white elephants in the room, whether be it corruption, undue influence, or absolute incompetence.
However, there’s a fine line between reporting the abuses perpetrated by the U.S. in Iraqi prisons, or the secret life of Epstein and accomplices, to outing the details of secretive military operations that failed only to a series of unfortunate events, which would have granted the U.S. an advantage for the benefit not only of the administration that carried it out, but frankly for the peace of the entire American people.
It is particularly jarring (despite the great detailed description of the mission) that the Times decided to publish it when North Korea is more dangerous than ever.
To justify this as a violation of the law for not sharing details with Congress seems an excuse for a revenge, or to somehow bring more awareness as to the human (faulty) nature of the SpecOps, is shortsighted, and risks the American people at large even more, including the servicemen station in South Korea (and all of us!) from a future retaliatory attack.
Some truths are better not said until the risk has passed.
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James Firelocke commented September 5, 2025
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James Firelocke
New Jersey ·
Sept. 5, 2025
The thing that most stands out to me is three innocent fisherman dead, but I guess this pales in comparison with the 100s of thousands dead in our 20-year Iraq/Afghanistan debacle.
Glad we're spending money on these failures, when 60% of Americans are not breaking even paying for the expenses of living.
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Deutschmann commented September 5, 2025
D
Deutschmann
America ·
Sept. 5, 2025
Risking a nuclear war for a slight intelligence advantage. Trump shouldn’t be in charge of a gas station, let alone our armed forces.
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Jennifer commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
J
Jennifer
Frankfurt, Germany ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@NA 100% agree with you. I was wondering this myself and shocked to read this article. It will do more harm than good, and this transparency in ops strategy puts the SEALs at risk in future ops
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Douglas commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
D
Douglas
Germany ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@Earthling Alright Tom Clancy, but I happen to think it's in the interest of the public to know how reckless our presidents can be.
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macro commented September 5, 2025
m
macro
atlanta ·
Sept. 5, 2025
Not fond of disclosing secret missions, but when they are authorized on a whim and without any oversight, this is the right course of action. The Seals turned a minisub around with the cockpit lights on and the door open? What? Months of planning to do just that? That is plain poor training and judgment, not just a mistake. Whomever did that maneuver was not qualified for the mission. Close the door!
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K commented September 5, 2025
K
K
DC ·
Sept. 5, 2025
I can’t help thinking of those North Korean fisherman, growing up and struggling to live in one of the poorest and most authoritarian countries in the world, shot dead for no real reason at night in cold water, mutilated after death to hide their bodies, lost to families that might never know what happened to them, and their killings twisted to count as proper under some abstract rules of engagement.
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M Andrew commented September 5, 2025
M Andrew
M Andrew
FL ·
Sept. 5, 2025
“It was so risky that it required the president’s direct approval.” I can think of no president or person for that matter, less qualified to make such a decision.
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FL1 commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
F
FL1
Florida ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@MG. Well the reason you get to worry about all of those "First World" concerns you mentioned is that there are a group of people out there who put their lives on the line to keep the real crazy behavior off-shore. Spend some time in the Mideast, , Myanmar, North Africa, Northern Mexico, Southern China, Ukraine, Venezuela etc. where feeding the cat and staring at the clouds is not a luxury to be enjoyed..
Unfortunately there are a lot of bad actors out there who wish us harm... Harebrained? how about "high risk and executed with a lot of bravery"?.. They sure ain't in it for the pay or notoriety.
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Keef re Cucamonga commented September 5, 2025
K
Keef re Cucamonga
LA ·
Sept. 5, 2025
Truly, we are the bad guys.
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David commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
D
David
UK ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@Mary Smith
> I do not understand why the first Trump administration did not go to Congress and inform them
After his personal approval was required a given, the perception was likely that the mission's failure was also the President's failure, and sometimes that is not acceptable to The Party.
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Larry commented September 5, 2025
L
Larry
Texas ·
Sept. 5, 2025
Was there any thought as to whether or not the same outcome could be achieved by less spectacular and safer means? Say by electronic intercept by NSA or some other agency? Or was the Hollywood nature of the mission was what drew Trump to it?
Reading this story, I have to believe it was undertaken more to satisfy egos than accomplish any legitimate objective.
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Memes commented September 5, 2025
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Memes
Chicago ·
Sept. 5, 2025
How much of this plan was motivated by “Obama got to use seal team 6, I need to play too!”
Let’s not kid ourselves; a lot.
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Manish commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
M
Manish
Lancaster PA ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@YamaYagi agree completely with rationale for reporting. Those who argue against it are probably unknowingly in favor of authoritarian rule. Which is exactly how Trump 2.0 is leading the US. It is hard to believe his authorzation of military missions, both coverty and overt, are well-considered and well-planned. Now, even less so as her replaces more capable and experienced people in high positions with less capable loyalists. The hope is to get to the end of his term without a disaster occurring on the international stage.
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BrianPC31 commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
B
BrianPC31
Orlando ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@Sam - FYI:
"Both commercial and recreational shellfish divers harvest shellfish at night, and they often do so because some species are more active or easier to find after dark. Spiny lobsters, for example, leave their daytime hiding spots in crevices and rocks to search for food at night.
Shellfish harvested at night
Spiny Lobsters: These are a prime target for night divers, particularly in places like Florida and California. Divers with flashlights can spot them out in the open on the reef, making for a thrilling catch.
Clams: Native tribes, such as the Suquamish Tribe in the Pacific Northwest, traditionally conduct night harvests for shellfish like clams during low tides, which often occur after sunset.
Other marine life: Divers frequently encounter a variety of other nocturnal marine life during their nighttime expeditions, including crabs, octopus, shrimp, and cuttlefish.
Why divers prefer the night
Increased visibility for certain species: With the right dive light, lobsters and other species can be easier to see and catch when they are out in the open at night.
Different marine life activity: The ocean at night is a completely different world, with different creatures and behaviors on display."
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John H commented September 5, 2025
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John H
Cape Coral, FL ·
Sept. 5, 2025
Trump doesn't inform Congress, before or after.
Now that Cingress has been informed by the NY Times Republicans will do nothing.
Excellent reporting though.
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Sunnyreader commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
S
Sunnyreader
Minneapolis ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@Patrick Healy My best guess is that someone is really concerned about a plan that is already in place. Leaking this information is probably an attempt to stop the plan before it blows up.
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Ian commented September 5, 2025
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Ian
Toronto, Canada ·
Sept. 5, 2025
So innocent fishermen are murdered in cold blood. How is that justified?
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Susan Smith commented September 5, 2025
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Susan Smith
Pawling, NY ·
Sept. 5, 2025
Next time there's a risky mission that this president thinks is a good idea, insist he go along. He's so good at everything - so he tells us - that the mission is bound to be a success.
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Joe M commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
J
Joe M
Florida ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@DL We either live in an open society or we don't. This article may have negative affects for us but if it is an actual account of what happened then it should be out there.
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wormcast commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
w
wormcast
WY ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@DL I think that alerting a nation's public to a rogue president's history of (potentially nuclear war-causing) espionage bungles accomplishes a deeply valuable service. It appears that our mentally ill authoritarian president didn't even alert key members of Congress prior to launching this mission.
It is worth noting that just this past week the same president (who doesn't even bother to read daily security briefings) just assassinated the crew of *another* nation's boat - in international waters. We have only his flunkies' word that it was drug smugglers. And even if they were, it is illegal to simply kill them.
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RocketScientist commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
R
RocketScientist
Munich ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@Mkm But Trump broke the law by not informing congress. Naturally if it was successful he would of tweeted with him morning hamburger and coke.
Congress doesn't do it's job.
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SIStem Thinker commented September 5, 2025
S
SIStem Thinker
Boston ·
Sept. 5, 2025
Wow, what a story.
Would N Korea be able to look at satellite images of the area after the fact to see the subs moving around? Is there satellite technology that allows for security camera type recordings , maybe photos taken every 5 minutes? I guess the lack of light would prevent that.
I am sorry for the fishermen and their families. And I would hate to live in a world where civilians inexplicably went missing due to everyone engaging in these kinds of missions. I guess people, especially women, especially Indigenous women go missing all the time due to male predation.
One last question-why didn’t the crew of the mini submarines use periscopes or mics to pick up sound or movement around them while they were reparking and just in general while monitoring their colleagues? And did any of them speak Korean so they can understand what was being said by civilians?
And if boats were present in the area, why didn’t they go disguised as a fishing boat with Korean speaking personnel carrying out the mission?
It seems to me that if human life was prized, and the rules of war were followed, more could have been done to prevent civilian deaths.
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tfsplendid commented September 5, 2025
t
tfsplendid
Toronto (US citizen) ·
Sept. 5, 2025
Does anyone care about the dead fishermen? I do.
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Bill P. commented September 5, 2025
B
Bill P.
Bozeman, MT ·
Sept. 5, 2025
The fact that many Seal missions go awry and that these individuals are trained killers should give us no pause that so many of them are now deemed perfect for elected office. Why, we have two of them here in Montana. Funny, for all the macho displayed by SEALS in Hollywood, our fellows actually appear rather timid when it comes to standing up to Trump.
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Chris commented September 5, 2025
C
Chris
Calgary Alberta ·
Sept. 5, 2025
Who found that the killings were justified? The American military.
The kind of closed circuit justice guys like trump and Bush love.
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VT commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
V
VT
NY ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@Jay Bravery? Bravery would be to plant a device.
Instead of shooting left and right with a first sign of danger. It is a definition of cowardness
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My Friend Bob Sacamano commented September 5, 2025
M
My Friend Bob Sacamano
NYC ·
Sept. 5, 2025
This kind of reporting is why I’m a Times subscriber.
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SloopJohnB commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
S
SloopJohnB
Silver Spring, MD ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@Hugh. A real issue is the proper congressional committees. Civilian oversight appears to be a joke in the Trump administration (if not previous ones) unless DEI or woke is being crucified.
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Hill Chick commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
H
Hill Chick
Washington, DC ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@A The last two paragraphs of the article report the investigation undertaken by Sec. Austin and the fact that key Members of Congress were informed of the mission and results of the investigation in 2021.
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Deborah commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
D
Deborah
MA ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@Bill Walker Maybe we need to rethink our understanding of "rogue states" given what our government is doing -- bombing Iran, a Venezuelan boat, a Korean boat -- without declaring war, without congressional approval.
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anna commented September 5, 2025
a
anna
ct ·
Sept. 5, 2025
Clearly our tripartite form of government and system of checks and balances no longer works. As a republic, our elected officials should have been aware of this operation, and not six years after the fact.
The founding fathers may have been brilliant but its unrealistic to think their governmental structure could survive 250 years.
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JK Global commented September 5, 2025
J
JK Global
What used to be America ·
Sept. 5, 2025
To all those NYT subscribers who are responding to this excellent piece of journalism with (justifiable) concern for U.S. national security and the integrity of our intelligence services, I'd urge you to consider two points:
1/ You can be sure, from his previous actions, that Donald Trump would have never kept this operation a secret, had it succeeded. Indeed, its details were, more than likely, in the hundreds of documents he so casually stored in his toilet at Mar-a-Lago.
2/ Try living in North Korea for a year or two, and you'll realize that, for all its faults, a free press in America at least offers the public the chance of some transparency as to where our hard-earned tax dollars go. And whom they benefit. And who gets to decide. In places like North Korea, there will never be a free press, just lies, more lies, and then lies about the lies.
And if you're against such well-source and conscientious reporting, you're helping Trump and co. to foster their own North Korean-style dictatorship here in the land you call home.
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Thomas Fister commented September 5, 2025
T
Thomas Fister
Tennessee ·
Sept. 5, 2025
This story is incredibly reckless, and should not have been published. Our relations with North Korea are still fragile, and we do not need to give them blatant reasons to respond in force to us. This article didn’t take into account the safety of our own troops, and puts American forces in the INDOPACOM region in danger. There are legitimate reasons to keep things classified - for our own safety, and it’s not to “cover up” failed missions.
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C Harington commented September 5, 2025
C
C Harington
New levels definition of corruption ·
Sept. 5, 2025
If the mission had been successful Trump probably wouldn’t have been able to keep his gob shut! At some stage he would have had to take the credit and the limelight.
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Rapscallion commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
R
Rapscallion
DC ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@DL Part of having free speech and a free press is the freedom to criticize the government. If you took those ideals seriously, you wouldn't have made such a ridiculous argument in favor of censorship.
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Rinosaur commented September 5, 2025
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Rinosaur
Texas ·
Sept. 5, 2025
Reporting this 2019 mission gone wrong that caused innocent people to die allows Kim Jong Un to portray our soldiers as literal killers in the night.
It also puts PKR and other bad actors on notice to improve coastal monitoring to make future S.E.A.L. missions harder.
In return, we get another documented example of Trump ignoring rules of congressional oversight that prior presidents honored. Important to know? Yes. Do I feel enlightened? Hardly.
I’m not sure the juice is worth the squeeze with this one.
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andrewm commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
a
andrewm
London ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@Ken T. Being a good journalist does not require anyone to have “served” in any role other than serving as a journalist. Also characterizing this as “cavalier” is clearly you trying to make it something it’s not. Nytimes has clear rules, published open, an omnibudman, and even in this article they explained their thinking process. This is clearly in service to the country to show where our tax dollars go, and how we make mistakes.
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Nicole commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
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Nicole
Hamden CT ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@Coming to America
The law as we knew it is completely irrelevant to this crude mob occupying our government.
They seem to like using military equipment as often as they can. So much easier than having to take the long view and craft policy.
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JN commented September 5, 2025
J
JN
NY ·
Sept. 5, 2025
So, this is another case of state-sanctioned murder where no one will be really held accountable. That's American exceptionalism for you.
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Lisa commented September 5, 2025
L
Lisa
Nashville, TN ·
Sept. 5, 2025
Gee, sure would have been nice to know about this BEFORE the 2024 election. This is the first I'm hearing of this.
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Alex commented September 5, 2025
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Alex
Milan, Italy ·
Sept. 5, 2025
Is there a day that the murderous American government doesn’t murder people?
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Mkm commented September 5, 2025
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Mkm
Nyc ·
Sept. 5, 2025
A classic cold war operation. This stuff has been going on forever, around the globe by friend and foe alike. They do it, we do it. Oh the outrage, Trump did it.
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averagejoe commented September 5, 2025
a
averagejoe
mid-west ·
Sept. 5, 2025
U.S. officials said it was unclear whether the North Koreans ever pieced together what had happened.
Thank you Times, now they know.
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Johnathon commented September 5, 2025
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Johnathon
London ·
Sept. 5, 2025
An excellent scoop, a delightful read, and a mind-boggling story.
This is why we love the NYTimes.
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JC Reaves commented September 5, 2025
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JC Reaves
NC ·
Sept. 5, 2025
For he commenters who are complaining about this story divulging secrets...
There was nothing secret divulged in this story. We all know about SEALS, subs (mini and nuclear), satellites and night vison goggles. And the North Koreans already know the raid happened The "secret" here was that it was kept from Congress for the benefit of the Trump administration and the SEAL's career tracks.
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Chris commented September 5, 2025
Chris
Chris
Minneapolis ·
Sept. 5, 2025
"The Trump Administration may have violated federal law". Understatement of the day.
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TennTrotter commented September 5, 2025
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TennTrotter
Tennessee ·
Sept. 5, 2025
Legacy of Ashes is an excellent book that details similar disasters. Apparently no amount of oversight can stop the cowboys and 007 wannabes and fantasists from getting approval to take on incredibly dangerous plays like this. Doesn’t the military look at the bigger picture before running with these movie scenarios?
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Charlie commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
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Charlie
Portland, Oregon ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@Ralph thank you. The indifference to the civilians murdered in these comments is unsettling. American exceptionalism evidently means our lives are exceptionally valuable, or conversely, that our enemies lives are exceptionally worthless. How could Americans ever wonder why some seethe with resentment at the giant bully who does whatever he wants, whenever he wants to, and then determines “that the killing of civilians was justified under the rules of engagement”?
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Cerberus commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
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Cerberus
New York ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@Ralph
This guy gets humanity. It’s so sad to see so many humans laud murder because their team executes the act.
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Farblondjet commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
F
Farblondjet
Virginia ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@Liam If responsible media report on military operations like this one, they include details known to our adversaries already, but not the general American public. I think it important to know that our military undertakes these missions, and that the commander in chief undid the precautions of the previous administration, probably only because he wanted to un-do everything his predecessor did, i.e., no cogent reason. I also want to know that the commander in chief is not reporting these operations to those in Congress authorized to hear about them. Is that going on today?
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Andrew commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
A
Andrew
Louisville ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@Michael. Carter was fully open about the operation which, let's not forget, was a military failure: Carter paid the price for it (and in many ways we all did) at the subsequent election. And rescuing 50 American hostages seems, even now and with hindsight, to have been a laudable goal.
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Redacted commented September 5, 2025
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Redacted
Redacted ·
Sept. 5, 2025
The My Lai Massacre was a war crime committed by U.S. Army soldiers in Vietnam on March 16, 1968.
Soldiers from Charlie Company on a "search and destroy" mission entered the hamlet of My Lai but found only villagers eating breakfast, mostly women, children, and elderly men. Over the next 3 hours, soldiers rounded up, raped, tortured, and executed between 347 and 504 civilians indiscriminately. No enemy forces were found.
For over a year, U.S. Army officers concealed the massacre. In November 1969, investigative journalist Seymour Hersh revealed the story to the American public, detailing the atrocities and cover-up. The news caused shockwaves across the nation.
A military investigation found that 30 individuals had failed to report or properly investigate the killings but only 14 officers were charged, and only Lieutenant William Calley was convicted, of premeditated murder.
He was sentenced to life in prison but his sentence was later reduced to a brief period under house arrest.
All other charges were dropped or resulted in acquittals.
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Abstract commented September 5, 2025
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Abstract
WA ·
Sept. 5, 2025
Innocent people murdered for no reason, three people who likely were crucial to taking care of their friends & family. A travesty genuinely.
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Carrington Ward commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
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Carrington Ward
New Haven, CT ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@DL
In 2024 The media failed to ask either Biden or Trump questions that would have illuminated policy/ differences in approach regarding the use of military forces.
Publishing this story now is in part an indictment of those failures in 2024.
As to the post above, the humiliation is that US citizens were the last to know about this mission, our most dangerous enemy the first.
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Mike commented September 5, 2025
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Mike
Oakland ·
Sept. 5, 2025
I think now more than ever, we need hard-hitting investigative reporting on national security, thank you. Our current un-intelligence apparatus—headed by a director who recently outed an undercover CIA officer via social media—leaves much to be desired if a mission like this relied on competence. Combined that with a defense secretary and CIA director with less than ideal OPSEC, and I help but I worry about the ability of our intelligence community to protect us. Please keep doing more reporting like this.
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MJG commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
M
MJG
U.S.A. ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@DL this country doesn’t “provide” free speech to its citizens and free press. It’s one of our inalienable rights as Americans and is codified in the first Amendment.
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pinetree commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
p
pinetree
Seattle ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@Jay Yeah amazing care for night time pearl divers doing their job so the big boss could go stroke his ego with their big boss. Grifting and con jobs should not carry the blood of dead innocent. Huzzah! Makes you proud to Amurikan, doesn't it. Such bravery and cool calculated killing. No thanks for that kind o service.
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spud commented September 5, 2025
s
spud
NC ·
Sept. 5, 2025
So, our military snuck onto the beach of a sovereign nation and killed three unarmed civilians who were looking for shellfish, at the direction of Donald Trump. The plan was to install a listening device that would steal communications. Just a few days ago, the US military sunk a boat near Venezuela and killed everyone on board without ascertaining evidence that the crew was involved in drug running, also at the direction of Donald Trump. A few days ago the US was outraged by news that China hacked our communications. We really are not the good guys and we are not Great.
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SJ commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
S
SJ
DMV ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@MG
Comment of the day! Seriously! I just did all those things this morning and then happened to read this on a break from work.
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A commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
A
A
Denver ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@Hugh
What I am curious about is if the Biden administration briefed the appropriate members of the oversight committees.
If not, then the problem of an imperial presidency is even more obvious and not a single-party issue.
I can understand Biden choosing not to make this mission public; it would only make negotiations more difficult and cast the US in a negative light, even if it made Trump look slightly bad to national security people, which has never harmed Trump so far.
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Rho commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
Rho
Rho
One of the Springfields ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@A
You obviously didn't read the entire article because if you had your curiosity would have been allayed:
"When President Joseph R. Biden Jr. succeeded Mr. Trump, the gravity of the North Korea mission attracted renewed scrutiny. Mr. Biden’s defense secretary, Lloyd J. Austin III, ordered an independent investigation, conducted by the lieutenant general in charge of the Army inspector general’s office.
In 2021, the Biden administration briefed key members of Congress on the findings, a former government official said."
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C commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
C
C
10019 ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@Ken T. By reporting these types of stories you reduce the chance that the government is going to put these men in grave harm's way with incredibly risky and potentially foolish operations. It's a check and balance that's very important in a democracy.
Get over yourself.
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KenF commented September 5, 2025
K
KenF
Chino Hills, CA ·
Sept. 5, 2025
"It was so risky that it required the president’s direct approval."
In other words, the risks were so high that they needed the approval of world's most incompetent leader.
Some things just don't make sense.
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CleoCatra commented September 5, 2025
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CleoCatra
West Coast ·
Sept. 5, 2025
I can understand and share the mixed feelings that many readers have as to whether this disclosure of clearly classified information serves the nation's best interests. But it does raise questions about the effectiveness of Congressional oversight of DoD's operations and accountability. It also leads one to wonder if anyone involved in the incident had previously reached out to members of Congress seeking further investigation and hearings, even if not open to the general public. There's a lot more to this story.
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Bill commented September 5, 2025
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Bill
Minneapolis ·
Sept. 5, 2025
It does not seem to be in the national interest to publish this. The claim that the public “needs to know about special forces failures as well as successes” so that we can be aware of the risks our soldiers face is an awfully thin reed to justify publishing sensitive information about covert military and intelligence-gathering techniques. Any informed American should already be well aware of those risks. These types of stories just increase the risks to our special forces and diminish the effectiveness of our operations.
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MR commented September 5, 2025
M
MR
Jersey City, NJ ·
Sept. 5, 2025
“The North Korean leader seemed increasingly unpredictable and dangerous, and his relationship with Mr. Trump had lurched erratically between letters of friendship and public threats of nuclear war”.
I think this description fits both presidents and not just the “North Korean leader”.
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Mod runner commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
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Mod runner
Florida ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@NA. Agreed. As I read, I wondered why is this being published now? National security is a thing, and publishing this just seems like a bad idea.
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CJ commented September 5, 2025
C
CJ
Canada ·
Sept. 5, 2025
So in the United States of America incompetence is rewarded. It is hardly surprising when ‘adversaries’ do not trust this nation and its promises of peace.
Extrajudicial killing of civilians are crimes against humanity whether these be North Korean or Venezuelan. Due process exists for a reason.
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Alan commented September 5, 2025
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Alan
Washington, DC ·
Sept. 5, 2025
Inevitably, while a proportion of these highly complex military missions will not succeed, Republicans can always be counted on to use failures as political weapons if the incumbent Administration is Democratic (Carter and Iran, Clinton and Somalia). Soldiers, the GOP doesn’t always have your back.
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District Dilettante commented September 5, 2025
D
District Dilettante
DC ·
Sept. 5, 2025
North Korea just got a treasure trove of information about our military and intelligence operations that they didn't have before. This will come back to haunt the US for many, many years.
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Roberta Lawrence commented September 5, 2025
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Roberta Lawrence
Charlottesville VA ·
Sept. 5, 2025
Trump wants to be Obama.Except one man is presidential, and the other is a clown. And it would never have been a secret. Trump would have bragged about it to the world, and ruined it, like he does everything else.
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Andrew commented September 5, 2025
Andrew
Andrew
New Jersey ·
Sept. 5, 2025
I think that, of all the powers that Trump has as president, the one he really enjoys is killing people.
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Richard commented September 5, 2025
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Richard
New York ·
Sept. 5, 2025
I'm surprised that so many commenters are opposed to the publication of this story. This SEAL mission could have gotten us into a war. It was greenlighted in an abbreviated process by a president who seems opposed to any oversight of his use of the military. It's extremely relevant to current events, given the destruction of the Venezuelan fast boat carrying 11 people who may or may not have been drug runners. And it does offer some counterbalance to the popular notion that Navy SEALs are near-superhuman characters who can pull off any mission. Those are just a few of the ways in which the story is important. As for North Korea's reaction to it—hard to believe that they don't already know.
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Pedro commented September 5, 2025
P
Pedro
Arlington VA ·
Sept. 5, 2025
Excellent journalism.
As democracy and rule-of-law disintegrate, at least we have some documentation even going back to early in the first season of this horrid television show.
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Non Influencer commented September 5, 2025
N
Non Influencer
Sydney, Australia ·
Sept. 5, 2025
It kind of surprises me that an administration led by someone impulsive and unpredictable, was unable to forecast what another similar leader was likely to do. Or, perhaps it shouldn't...
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Hoya77 commented September 5, 2025
H
Hoya77
Bethany Beach, DE ·
Sept. 5, 2025
In the late 1980s, as a young Department of Justice attorney freshly released from active duty as a Navy JAG, I was assigned to represent the CO, XO and several members of SEAL Team Six in a civil action in which it was alleged that during a training exercise the team violated the Rules of Engagement for the conduct of the exercise resulting in injury to a civilian security officer. Suffice it to say, that particular incident (and a series of similar incidents) was a red flag early on regarding a certain lack of discipline with the special warfare community.
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tjcenter commented September 5, 2025
t
tjcenter
West Fork, AR ·
Sept. 5, 2025
One mistake away from an all out war. With countries that have nukes. I’m not feeling confident in knowing one of them is this president.
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River commented September 5, 2025
R
River
Blue ·
Sept. 5, 2025
We must view this whole episode as prelude to something far worse.
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HalifaxCB commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
H
HalifaxCB
Dartmouth, NS, Canada ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@NA The American military deliberately murdered innocent civilians in another country. If the criminality of that act is not publicly addressed, how do you intend to deal with it, and how do you expect to restrain the worst impulses of your security apparatus?
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Phillip commented September 5, 2025
P
Phillip
USA ·
Sept. 5, 2025
Incomplete intel cost three shellfish divers their lives. The frivolous attitude that lives of civilians are expendable is questionable. My Lai comes to mind.
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Katy M commented September 5, 2025
K
Katy M
NC ·
Sept. 5, 2025
Donald Trump absolutely hates that Osama bin Laden was captured during an Obama administration thanks to a SEAL Team Six attack. He is never going to stop deploying them into ill-advised situations until he can declare some similar victory his. That's all he cares about: getting the same amount or more glory than Obama. That's the way Trump works. It's that simple.
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DarleneL commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
D
DarleneL
Sacramento ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@NA I disagree. The public has a right to know when an administration unilaterally, without Congressional consultation and likely unlawfully, initiates military action that could result in a large scale armed conflict. Gulf of Tonkin, anyone?
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Emmanations commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
E
Emmanations
SF Bay Area ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@Howie Lisnoff
What is eye-opening is that Trump is publicly was very antagonistic toward the intelligence community, but he actually will use it. It is strange that he goes into high-level meetings skipping over all the State Department preparations and strategy supplied by the intelligence community, and yet he still approved of this kind of operation. Shallow thinking or risky ego-driven behavior?
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Sam commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
S
Sam
MT ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@Ken T. "There is no public benefit from disclosure". Actually, there is. The benefit is to keep civilian leadership making bold decisions that fly in the face of norms and standards (As well as the law) from continuing to do so.
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William commented September 5, 2025
W
William
Austin, TX ·
Sept. 5, 2025
Why is Donald Trump claiming to know nothing about a mission that supposedly authorized? Lying as a policy? The military should not be running a mission like this without the president's knowledge and approval.
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Kate commented September 5, 2025
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Kate
Midwest ·
Sept. 5, 2025
If you feel surprised by this, read more deeply into American history. Read more deeply into history—period.
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Chef commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
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Chef
Flyover ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@NA I agree with you. I wonder how (perhaps former) allies view this reporting. Trump, Hegseth and Co. have already demonstrated that any intelligence-sharing or collaboration are at high risk of exposure through incompetence. Does this type of reporting further sensitize allies to risk of disclosure?
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John Austin commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
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John Austin
NY ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@YamaYagi
I completely disagree with you. You don't know what the Koreans knew and their is no reason to validate any information for them. I'm not a fan of Trump-but unless you are in the room with far more information then is reported here-I'm willing to give Trump the benefit of the doubt
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Ski bum commented September 5, 2025
Ski bum
Ski bum
Colorado ·
Sept. 5, 2025
Trump has no idea what he is doing and has been wrong about everything
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Larry Bennett commented September 5, 2025
L
Larry Bennett
cooperstown ny ·
Sept. 5, 2025
And now, Trump is ordering summary executions of supposed drug runners on the open seas. Will Congress and the courts ever bring this mad dog to heel? Will the Republican Party ever rediscover its moral compass? Will the American people ever wake up to the huge mistake of electing him? It seems the answer is no.
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tee sabo commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
t
tee sabo
nyc ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@Liam Come on, NK knew about it, and who else would have tried to do this ? SK ? Nah, not their thing. US, sure, CIA or Navy? That would be the only question NK had.
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Bob commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
B
Bob
Canada ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@Hugh
There is no chance North Korea doesn't know about this.
But releasing this information is dangerous, especially at a time when America's democracy is at great risk with president who feels the laws of the land do not apply to him and a republican led congress that is more concerned about keeping seats (and lucrative jobs) than standing up for the democracy the United Staes once was.
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Victoriasf commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
V
Victoriasf
San Francisco ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@Liam the journalists notes that those who had insight into this are so concerned about the problems with Special Operations and the possible illegal lack of disclosure by the administration at the time. Clearly, those involved and more knowledgeable than we have considered this risk when disclosing. To be sure, North Korea knows the U.S. and others, China, Russia, are spying.
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carlton r commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
c
carlton r
florida ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@Patrick Healy Interesting article. I do find the fact that this information was suppressed until after the last election puzzling however.
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Raoul Wise commented September 5, 2025
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Raoul Wise
California ·
Sept. 5, 2025
Poor Korean fishermen. Just doing their job, supporting their families, when they were murdered in cold blood by trained killers whose "mission" was to plant a useless monitoring device on the soil of another country. How did this lame mission ever get approved in the first place? What real difference would it have made if the mission was successful? I'm guessing none.
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Julia commented September 5, 2025
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Julia
Bay Area ·
Sept. 5, 2025
While I’m not sure that publishing confidential information is a great idea, the story illustrates how even the best planned military exercises can go awry. That takes on new urgency now that the administration is saying they have the right to blow boats up in international waters. More fishermen, immigrants, and other civilians will be mistakenly murdered in the name of the US.
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KatO commented September 5, 2025
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KatO
New Jersey ·
Sept. 5, 2025
Rescuing hostages in desperate danger, one thing. Thank God for elite teams willing to risk their lives to save others. But such bravado missions should not be an extension of one man’s ego. Planting a bug? I’m guessing there was a smarter way to do that. Thanks for the reporting; NYT. Hoping it has positive results: deterring the hiding from Congress of actions that have the potential to create more harm than benefit, and more careful use of such resources.
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David Roy commented September 5, 2025
D
David Roy
Fort Collins CO ·
Sept. 5, 2025
Secrecy is meant to make denial plausible.
On a planet that has hair-triggers everywhere, and nuclear weapons at the ready to explode over enemies, the apparatus of governments everywhere continue to stay locked in a cage match that threatens the real life security of every person on this planet.
All of the land on earth has been claimed (though some still want to expand their borders). All of the people alive today are either ruled, or governed, with no tribe untouched by the tyranny of surveillance.
I'm fascinated by the logistics that these sort of efforts take - it is romantic to think about how heroic it is to conceive of a plan that involves nuclear subs, a highly trained team put into death defying circumstances, and all of the resources backing them up, every contingency gamed out, understood, and trained for.
The reality of an unplanned escalation that would have resulted in countless more deaths was always a possibility in this operation.
It is well past the time for nations to change their mode of operation, and talk face to face, with determination and honesty, about the urgent issues facing humanity. These issues will determine the future of humanity - they shouldn't need cloak and dagger techniques that are purposefully designed to be anonymous and untraceable.
Real security, and the truth, isn't going to be accomplished by spying on each other.
We need to collaborate, not exploit.
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Carol commented September 5, 2025
C
Carol
North Carolina ·
Sept. 5, 2025
This story makes me feel sick. To gain some advantage in negotiations that were not likely to yield anything but some international recognition for the North Korean thug the SEALS murdered three innocent fishermen just trying to support their families in a country of deep poverty and scant opportunity. Disgusting. And I am retired military.
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Just Another commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
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Just Another
New York ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@Earthling , If you take an expansive view of national security, you could make similar secrecy arguments were made for Iran - Contra, the CIA involvement in the overthrow of the Allende government in Chile and other could, and, for that matter, Watergate and maybe some of the recent ICE detentions of targeted activists. As the Washington Post used to say, democracy dies in darkness.
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Jason commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
J
Jason
Virginia ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@NA
Look past the qualms over the publishing of the story and instead realize where the sourcing came from. For elite operatives and military leaders to be so concerned over actions that they speak to the NYT should tell you there are far greater dangers to worry about than North Korea’s reactions.
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John Mitchell commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
J
John Mitchell
NY ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@NA: As the authors point out,
1. The operation itself created a real risk of escalating our conflict with North Korea.
2. The decision that such a risk was worth the rather dubious benefit was made without knowledge of the people's representatives.
3. Keeping the public in the dark about such things increases the likelihood of a future debacle of the kind that might have occurred in this instance.
Your objection is based on the false assumption that our adversaries are unaware that we engage in spying and infiltration operations, as do all major nations. Our relation with North Korea is already bad, and this article is not going to lead to them launching weapons. It enlightens the public about their government without compromising any intelligence methods or personnel.
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John Sellers commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
J
John Sellers
SF Bay Area ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@Hugh
I found out from this article that we live in an area which is within reach of North Korean rickets, and you say we don't need to know about stuff like this?
You've got another guess coming buddy!
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Sara commented September 5, 2025
S
Sara
San Francisco ·
Sept. 5, 2025
Those poor, unarmed North Korean civilians, fishing for food, and the families that would never know why they never came home….
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ATN commented September 5, 2025
A
ATN
Boston ·
Sept. 5, 2025
This is so embarrassing for the US. Poor preparation, poor execution, a failed mission, dead fishermen, an invasion of a hostile sovereign nation with nuclear capabilities— who’s the rational one now? The arrogant but inept US or the dictator? Another Trump failure, a shoot from the hip, poorly thought out, led by his insecurities move from the TV reality star. We can’t get rid of him fast enough.
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Sal commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
S
Sal
Phoenix, AZ ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@Rukiyat M North Korea definitely already knew about this. It's the public that is finding it out. A journalist's job is uncover stories and report on them. The Times specifically left out information that would be considered harmful to the security of the United States if it was released. The information here is embarrassing, but, whether or not the information presented is embarrassing to current or former administrations is a moot point when reporting. This is knowledge that should be made public because it gives an insight into the ineptitude of the President.
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Daniel JB Mitchell commented September 5, 2025
D
Daniel JB Mitchell
Los Angeles, CA ·
Sept. 5, 2025
Will this turn into another Pentagon Papers case, ultimately to be decided by a very different Supreme Court?
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Nicole commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
N
Nicole
Hamden CT ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@Tristan
The single greatest source of unprecedented damage to our national security and diplomatic interests lives in the White House.
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Kirk C commented September 5, 2025
K
Kirk C
Delmar, NY ·
Sept. 5, 2025
Does “Special Ops” mean especially illegal, secret from Congress and diplomats, disrespectful of borders, and likely to escalate? This shouldn’t be a ‘gotcha’ game — the stakes are too high.
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Husband of 1, father of 2. commented September 5, 2025
H
Husband of 1, father of 2.
Michigan ·
Sept. 5, 2025
Great reporting, but I do not believe this should have been printed.
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John commented September 5, 2025
J
John
New Mexico ·
Sept. 5, 2025
I for one, have never doubted the commitment of our service members to trading the risk of their lives in exchange for hope of gaining information; in action which might free the oppressed; or terminate an oppressor. I am amazed that a wild-eyed-weekend-pretender was required to focus our troops on lethality and a warrior-ethos. All of these foundational requirements of our troops and of those in the shadow organizations who work with them, are highlighted in this piece. At the time of this event military and civilian leadership was professional, capable and thoughtful.
I will have to wait for years, which I may not have, to evaluate the intent, risks and outcomes of any actions of the current administration that cannot now be reported.
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JGS commented September 5, 2025
J
JGS
NYC ·
Sept. 5, 2025
Thank you so much for bringing this to light. I felt moved to share that I was crying by the end of reading it. I felt so much empathy for the Seals who had to shoot and stab other humans, so much empathy for the North Korean families who lost loved ones that night, and just deep sadness as I realized, once again, what humanity is capable of. Our representatives need to know when things go wrong. And making this news public reminds us that our country should be Defensive, always—and strategic. But that there are great risks when we go on the Offense. I hope the Department of Defense (please not War) would agree.
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T.George commented September 5, 2025
T
T.George
New Hampshire ·
Sept. 5, 2025
"They found that the killing of civilians was justified under the rules of engagement"
Am I the only one that finds this just a little bit scary?
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Justin commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
J
Justin
SWFL ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@NA We have a right to this information, as it was done in our name and with our money. If the government worries that what they do will lead to reprisals if discovered they shouldn't be doing them in the first place. We should never cover up for intentional and dangerous military forays. Sunlight is the best disinfectant.
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Doc commented September 5, 2025
D
Doc
FL ·
Sept. 5, 2025
Our proud tough SEALS killing unarmed Korean fishermen while simultaneously failing at their mission. When are we going to stop all this winning under Trump?
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Paul commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
P
Paul
Pittsburgh ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@Roland Fagan
Much like the recent bombing of the suspected cartel boat with 11 suspected members of a gang, Congress wasn’t notified in advance of this operation either
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Mark commented September 5, 2025
M
Mark
Cape May, NJ ·
Sept. 5, 2025
I really don't know what to think. My instinct is that this type of knowledge should be seen by trusted members of Congress responsible for intelligence and military oversight, but not by the general public (me) or by North Koreans, which is now what is happening by publishing this story. I liked reading this story as I would like reading a good le Carre novel, but I don't like that this information is now known by US adversaries. It should be known by those responsible for oversight of the activities of secret military projects who need to know such things and only them. That is why we entrust them to represent our interests in our system of government.
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Robert commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
R
Robert
Out West ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@Jerry Sturdivant
That’s all just jim-dandy, but they are not gods, and this is still a democracy.
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Konda commented September 5, 2025
K
Konda
California ·
Sept. 5, 2025
Why did some innocent, curious fishermen had to die for the foolishness of the American president? This is unacceptable behavior without accountability. I am ashamed. This is not I voted for, and I am sure majority of this country do not want innocent civilians killed.
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Shaun Lott commented September 5, 2025
S
Shaun Lott
Auckland, NZ ·
Sept. 5, 2025
A foreign power puts a squad of crack troops onto a beach in Northern California. Their mission goes wrong and they kill half a dozen recreational divers before disappearing into the night. What would the US response be?
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Captain Jack commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
C
Captain Jack
NE NJ ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@Howie Lisnoff let's also not forget his "Cross of Iron" speech at the time of Stalin's death which IMO was even more poignient. Essentially he equated the cost of military hardware.
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technic ally commented September 5, 2025
technic ally
technic ally
free toronto ·
Sept. 5, 2025
There is absolutely nothing wrong about exposing trump's continuing reckless actions.
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Copium commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
C
Copium
NYC ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@NA Do you think North Korea is unaware of the United States meddling in its affairs and violating its sovereignty over the last 75 years?
The military & government officials that make up stupid dangerous Dr Strangelove plans like this should be publicly shamed and never hold a position of power, much less access to tax payer funds.
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D. Smith commented September 5, 2025
D
D. Smith
Cleveland, Ohio ·
Sept. 5, 2025
The most significant fallout from this article will be the massive investigation by the Trump administration to root out its sources, and prosecute to deflect accountability and blame. One thing that will be absolutely guaranteed is that Trump will have learned absolutely nothing from this failure because he never learns from his failures.
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Shasta's Mom commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
S
Shasta's Mom
Midwest ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@JS from NC
Another attempt to derail freedom of the press.
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DCcville commented September 5, 2025
D
DCcville
USA ·
Sept. 5, 2025
"They found that the killing of civilians was justified under the rules of engagement,"
Our military goes into North Korea, a country we are not at war with, illegally and unannounced, and kills three innocent fisherman -- and this is "justified" by rules of engagement?
No wonder much of the world thinks the US is out of control.
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Cowboy Marine commented September 5, 2025
C
Cowboy Marine
Colorado Trails ·
Sept. 5, 2025
Something an unserious draft-dodger who has watched too many war movies would do.
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Pat commented September 5, 2025
P
Pat
USA ·
Sept. 5, 2025
So the U.S. Military committed murder and the Trump Administration covered it up.
Thanks for sharing after the election.
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Beth commented September 5, 2025
B
Beth
Colorado ·
Sept. 5, 2025
Amazing scoop, NY Times! It had been covered up for five years. Makes me wonder how many other ill-conceived, potentially catastrophic orders have been followed and then covered up.
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Tony commented September 5, 2025
T
Tony
OK ·
Sept. 5, 2025
Trump’s lack of concern for innocent civilian life is one of the great underreported stories of his first administration. He killed so many civilians he ordered the government to stop counting.
He gets a lot of labels, but I feel that we don’t emphasize the psychopath one enough.
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Bryce Merry commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
B
Bryce Merry
Pennsylvania ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@Nancy Sculerati MD
Because the public should know that our laws and Congress are being circumvented for illegal military operations by the CIA
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Leon commented September 5, 2025
L
Leon
Atlanta ·
Sept. 5, 2025
My first reaction was that our insecure and undisciplined president was trying to even the score with Obama's successful use of Seal Team Six to capture and kill Ben Laden. The fact that he had no justification for entering No. Korea and killing innocent civilians while pretending to be Kim Jung Um's BF tells me how dangerous it is to have Trump in charge of the military. To risk the lives of troops and allies in South Korea with an unprovoked attack on North Korea tells me Trump was unhinged and reckless already in 2019. And now with the amateurish group he has in charge of the military, diplomacy and security. Trump has no business ordering our military into any mission.
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Metastasis commented September 5, 2025
M
Metastasis
Oilistan ·
Sept. 5, 2025
Wow! Thanks to Seal Team Six for killing some peasants without civilian oversight.
Sounds positively ... authoritarian.
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Hwui Lee commented September 5, 2025
H
Hwui Lee
Los Angeles, CA ·
Sept. 5, 2025
Guess what North Korean commandos did in a raid (1968 presidential assassination mission) on South Korea soil when they were seen by civilians? Instead of murdering them, they lectured them on the glories of Communism and released them with a warning. Quite the comparison to the conduct of our own commandos.
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JR commented September 5, 2025
J
JR
Cda ·
Sept. 5, 2025
Beware manly problem solving. Proceed with extreme caution. There are only a few problems you can fix by hitting it hard with a big hammer. Mostly it makes things worse. When people want to rename Defence to The War Department and replace thoughtful oversight with macho swagger it's easy to see disaster on the way.
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Pat commented September 5, 2025
P
Pat
California ·
Sept. 5, 2025
This article shows that Trump has always treated our military as a toy/private army and still does. The purpose of this mission was more war/spy games by a military/president that is so arrogant that it thinks it can do anything they want. I'm sure nothing new was reported here, except the American public was finally notified, which makes us wonder how many other blunders have been going on...
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Bobcat commented September 5, 2025
B
Bobcat
Massachusetts ·
Sept. 5, 2025
The decision to do this crazy thing was more than a mistake, it was done due to lack of experience and knowledge of the many risk factors. Something like voting for someone and not doing the homework. Americans know better now, don't we.
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BAR commented September 5, 2025
B
BAR
Michigan ·
Sept. 5, 2025
“The Trump administration did not notify key members of Congress who oversee intelligence operations, before or after the mission. The lack of notification may have violated the law.” May have? How does the NYT know one way or the other? Maybe their sources were not read in. Or were second or third hand. hand. lot of “iffing” in the article. That’s the problem with anonymous sources. And it looks like a number of sources who know the facts declined to talk. Have to wonder why this is now a story 6 years later.
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David N. commented September 5, 2025
D
David N.
Florida Voter ·
Sept. 5, 2025
Thanks to the Post for publishing this story, which is bound to raise hackles in the would-be dictator. We still have a free press.
Some curious, unarmed fishermen got killed and mutilated. A hothead on the beach started shooting even though the personnel on the mini-subs were much better positioned to assess the threat (of course, there was no real threat).
So then the murderous hothead had time to lead his pirates to the boat so they could stab the fishermen in the lungs so they would not float? As if the North Koreans couldn't find an abandoned boat and look for the crew in the shallow water.
If this killer and mutilator got promoted, that's a sad and dangerous precedent. Beware the panicked man with a dangerous weapon. Now that the story's out, he can write a book and become a Congressman.
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TadRich commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
T
TadRich
Birmingham, AL ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@Si Seulement Voltaire
You, among others, are missing the point. This is not going to get Trump. This is not exposing shocking new behavior. This hopefully will be a lesson learned about unacceptable risks, unnecessary deaths of innocents, lack of accountability, lack of following notification rules set to help bring wiser oversight, and prevention of overly risky actions like this in the future.
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JS from NC commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
J
JS from NC
Greensboro,NC ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@Howie Lisnoff Get ready for a lawsuit against the NYT as well as a DOJ investigation.
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Paul commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
P
Paul
New Jersey ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@Ed In the beginning we are told that they omitted information to protect future missions. It can be assumed if they are publishing this that they both clearly know what happened.
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Ellen commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
E
Ellen
NYC ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@NA - There is nothing in here that is secret or classified in any way- other than the fact that this operation existed (and failed).
N Korea knew what happened - this article is not news to them.
As a voter - if I want to know where my money is being wasted - esp when its almost 1,000,000,000,000 a year.
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Florida guy commented September 5, 2025
F
Florida guy
USA ·
Sept. 5, 2025
Putin in Russia
Kim in North Korea
Trump in the United States
Never has the world been more unsafe
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AR commented September 5, 2025
A
AR
San Francisco ·
Sept. 5, 2025
I don't see a single letter addressing the two main facts:
1. The United States militarily invaded another country and,
2. murdered its civilians.
That is an act of war by any definition. The inhuman arrogance and hubris is breathtaking. As if the United States simply has the right to invade and murder anywhere in the world at whim.
Sadly most Americans know absolutely nothing about the horrific history of US intervention in Korea and the slaughter of 4 million people during the US-provoked Korean War, or the decades of bloody US-puppet dictatorships in South Korea, headed by reviled collaborators of the former Japanese colonial regime. I suggest reading, "The Korean War," by Bruce Cumings.
None of us should doubt that what the US government is willing to do abroad, they will be willing to do to us here in the US.
Trump is already deploying the military in the streets against the American people. It's not hard to imagine Trump deploying the SEAL special forces as his Praetorian Guard against... perhaps to crush a strike by workers or a protest in defense of the Constitution.
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Anthony Davis commented September 5, 2025
A
Anthony Davis
Montesano, WA ·
Sept. 5, 2025
If a foreign power made these kinds of moves on US soil, it would be considered an act of war.
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blackLight commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
b
blackLight
DC ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@A
It certainly sounds like he did. From the article:
...Biden’s defense secretary, Lloyd J. Austin III, ordered an independent investigation, conducted by the lieutenant general in charge of the Army inspector general’s office.
In 2021, the Biden administration briefed key members of Congress on the findings.
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Bill commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
B
Bill
Va ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@Ken T.
Yeah, except it sounds like the guy who knows more than HIS generals broke the law, again. But sure sweep it under the rug.
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Clem commented September 5, 2025
C
Clem
Los Angeles ·
Sept. 5, 2025
Three people were killed by the U.S military in cold blood. If that does not trouble your conscience, I don't know what will. The U.S military industrial complex continues to be a harbinger of death around the world.
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Brian commented September 5, 2025
B
Brian
Worcester ·
Sept. 5, 2025
President Bone Spurs will undertake high risk operations to project (unfounded) strength. The current ops in Venezuela will prove disastrous as tRump and Pete make poor decisions.
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Laurin commented September 5, 2025
L
Laurin
USA ·
Sept. 5, 2025
Do commenter who disagree with this piece really believe that the North Koreans dont already know what happened and who was responsible?
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Peter Schaeffer commented September 5, 2025
Peter Schaeffer
Peter Schaeffer
Morgantown, WV ·
Sept. 5, 2025
Let's be clear, if another country would have done this to us, it would be considered an act of war. So much for the often touted rule-based international order led by Washington.
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Alex commented September 5, 2025
A
Alex
New York ·
Sept. 5, 2025
EVERYONE- this covert mission was known to North Korea way before this publication. The mission itself is the threat- not the latent reporting to the American public.
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Steve commented September 5, 2025
S
Steve
San Diego ·
Sept. 5, 2025
Why isn't this all over the news! Every channel, CNN, Fox etc. The incompetence doesn't end. Had Biden done that, Republicans would be roasting him right now. This is shocking.
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NDG commented September 5, 2025
N
NDG
This is not for you! ·
Sept. 5, 2025
No need to worry about the current state of affairs with Tulsi Gabbard and Laura Loomer overseeing our national intelligence operations!
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ExTexan commented September 5, 2025
E
ExTexan
San Jose, CA ·
Sept. 5, 2025
"The North Korean leader seemed increasingly unpredictable and dangerous..."
Substitute American in place of North Korean, and that statement still works today.
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TDurk commented September 5, 2025
T
TDurk
Rochester, NY ·
Sept. 5, 2025
Had you run this story during the 1950s, 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, you would have been rightly charged with treason.
Your rational for running the story reeks of "I did it for your own good."
It's bad enough we have a president and some of his core administration who arguably are more loyal to Putin than to our national interests.
Now we have a news site divulging operational details as described in this story.
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Robert commented September 5, 2025
R
Robert
Ireland ·
Sept. 5, 2025
This reporting is striking in its depiction of black ops that have little to no oversight. People may read this and think that it is a bad thing to reveal to US adversaries, but I think that misses the more important nuance - had this operation gone wrong it could have led to chaos and destruction far beyond the few people killed on the boat, and with no oversight beyond the President at that time. This should leave people wondering what other risks the current administration might be taking that could bring far more serious consequences.
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Carter Gouaux commented September 5, 2025
C
Carter Gouaux
Danbury, CT ·
Sept. 5, 2025
This is an instance where responsible journalism outweighs government transparency. By producing this document, a publicly traded, for-profit company, has created a massive security risk for both states, which will mean an escalation with an already unpredictable leader.
This was not smart.
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JG commented September 5, 2025
J
JG
NYC ·
Sept. 5, 2025
I was struck by this passage that could easily describe Trump: "The North Korean leader seemed increasingly unpredictable and dangerous, and his relationship with Mr. Trump had lurched erratically between letters of friendship and public threats of nuclear war."
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Matt commented September 5, 2025
Matt
Matt
Ohio ·
Sept. 5, 2025
Tension with North Korea is the highest it has been in years, and as the NYT reported, nothing increases tensions like botched covert missions.
The investigation has already been released to Congress, who has chosen to keep it secret. So has Biden. So why release this report to North Korea? Anyone care to guess if this reporting would have been released during the Harris Administration? The NYT also knows how to keep a secret... until the right time.
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Mad Moderate commented September 5, 2025
Mad Moderate
Mad Moderate
Cape Cod ·
Sept. 5, 2025
This article should not have been published. Yes, our leaders and military need aggressive oversight, but publicly confirming a top secret operation - when all of the key players remain in positions of power - is irresponsible and makes it harder to defend a free press.
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Questions commented September 5, 2025
Q
Questions
Pennsylvania ·
Sept. 5, 2025
What is happening right now that would motivate so many sources to share and corroborate a cautionary tale? Who is involved? Who has been "promoted" (as referenced in the article) from this specific mission and CoC? Should we be asking what preceeded a speedboat sinking? Or should we be looking to other shores too? Who needs to be reminded that there actions will come to light whether or not they follow the law today in reporting them to Congress? Will this article suffice? Will Congress proactively ask them?
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Sua Sponte commented September 5, 2025
S
Sua Sponte
Raleigh, NC ·
Sept. 5, 2025
Amphibious special operations are the Navy Seals bread and butter. This mission has Murphy's Law written all over it. Though three innocent lives were lost, the end result would have been catastrophically worse had the team been compromised and captured or killed.
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Bill commented September 5, 2025
B
Bill
Spring Lake NJ ·
Sept. 5, 2025
One can only imagine the response if a similar operation was conducted by an adversary on our soil and a group of fisherman were killed.
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Realist commented September 5, 2025
Realist
Realist
Earth ·
Sept. 5, 2025
One more in the litany of failures by Trump.
He's going to get us into a war by doing stupid things like this...
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Guest commented September 5, 2025
G
Guest
Worcester, MA ·
Sept. 5, 2025
The point of the article is in the 8th graph:
"The Trump administration did not notify key members of Congress who oversee intelligence operations, before or after the mission. The lack of notification may have violated the law."
Viewed in light of the fast tracked hare brained Yemen mission, the NYT has, in furtherance of its journalistic ideals, informed us yet again of the dangers this President and his administration pose, and the values at stake in 2026.
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Joe Pizza commented September 5, 2025
J
Joe Pizza
NYC ·
Sept. 5, 2025
It's insane we have someone like Trump greenlighting these missions and not a more thoughtful leader.
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Mike in Maine commented September 5, 2025
M
Mike in Maine
USA ·
Sept. 5, 2025
The failure of the Administration to inform Congress—as is *required*— about the mission reminds us that this is a lawless Presidency
Not merely unfettered by historic norms, but unconstrained by the actual letter of the law, this is truly a rogue government.
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Lina commented September 5, 2025
L
Lina
Europe ·
Sept. 5, 2025
Shoot first, ask questions later, huh?
And do it in secret without notifying the Congress. Nice.
In public talk about love letters.
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John commented September 5, 2025
J
John
Catskills ·
Sept. 5, 2025
Three human beings with family and friends just trying to make a living were murdered. Doesn't that count for anything?
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Charlie commented September 5, 2025
C
Charlie
Portland, Oregon ·
Sept. 5, 2025
“They found that the killing of civilians was justified under the rules of engagement…”
As the night follows the day, American militarists find that “the killing of civilians” was justified. Even when their operatives violate international law, stumble upon random civilians, and gun them down in a blind panic.
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Jspad commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
J
Jspad
Wayne, PA ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@NA They send several watercraft toward the North Korean shore, they flood the pitch-black shore with light for miles around, they blast away in the still of night with multiple weapons, they leave multiple dead bodies behind, and in their wake they see a frenzied convergence of North Korean military personnel at the location they just attacked. Following which, the North Korean government conducts itself with even greater belligerence toward the US.
The notion that North Korea is learning of this mission, or of the identity of its authors, from this NYT article is laughable. Though perhaps you’re right; maybe up until this morning, the North Koreans believed that Sweden was the culprit.
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Dag Knabbitt commented September 5, 2025
D
Dag Knabbitt
Dairyland ·
Sept. 5, 2025
The people in Congress are representatives, representing the people of this country. The President is an executive, executing what the people’s representatives decide. The fact that Congressional members were not informed of a highly dangerous mission with grave consequences to the country, let alone offered to consent to the plan, points to a critical and long developing tear in the constitutional fabric the Framers intended. The whole of Congress doesn’t need to be in the decision making, but the an Executive should not make decisions and act unilaterally without the consent of key Congressional members sworn to protect national security.
And now we have Trump* festering on the cusp of an authoritarian regime. Congress! Do your job!
* and his cadre of boot licking lackeys
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Ericharold commented September 5, 2025
E
Ericharold
Alexandria VA ·
Sept. 5, 2025
Words fail. Some poor fishermen living in a closed world likely barely surviving are massacred by US forces. I love my country. America gave my family a haven from monsters. Americans gave me an education, a life. Now 70 years old, for many reasons I am ashamed to be an American. My hope is to live long enough to see America again become the country it ought to be.
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LM. commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
L
LM.
Florida ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@Liam I can't believe that NK would be unaware of anything discussed in this article. Night goggles, mini subs. Surely they've read Tom Clancy novels.
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Matt commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
M
Matt
Cherry Hill ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@DL The need for reporting would potentially be different if proper people in Congress were informed. No reason the Gang of 4 wasn't briefed prior to the mission, and absolutely no reason the after-action report on the failure wasn't shared with the Intelligence committees.
There is nothing reported here that NK doesn't already know. The increased military patrols after the failed mission show that.
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Tom Joad commented September 5, 2025
T
Tom Joad
Denver ·
Sept. 5, 2025
Congratulations and thanks to the courageous reporters and editors of the NYT for publishing this.
This is exactly the mind set that got the US involved in Vietnam: national security authorities deciding they know what is best, and that Americans are best kept in the dark.
Here comes another letter to my elected representatives.
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CaliMatt commented September 5, 2025
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CaliMatt
Central Coast, CA ·
Sept. 5, 2025
In my earlier life, I was a naval intelligence officer assigned to a West Coast SEAL Team. We couldn't even acknowledge the existence of our command.
Things happen on missions like this. What this article calls "mistakes" are actually the consequences of difficult, complex, split-second decisions made under the extreme stress of combat.
The real story here in this article is the failure of the first Trump administration to read in other elected leaders, and to manage the aftermath correctly.
I also wonder how thie was leaked...
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AMW02053 commented September 5, 2025
A
AMW02053
Medway, Ma ·
Sept. 5, 2025
The next time the Trump Admin tweets that the US military has proudly blown a dangerous drug cartel out of the sea somewhere in international waters, think back to this reporting and 3 dead fishermen lying cold in the water. Thank you, NYTimes, for trusting in the American people and keeping us informed!
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smartalek commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
s
smartalek
boston ma ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@Inch Gleich
"I wonder if they’ve developed any psychological problems after the event."
I imagine they'd have to have had some pre-existing condition(s) to be eligible for membership in their team.
Normal and normative human beings don't generally do things like that, any more than they find it easy to dispatch disobedient puppies.
That may well be a necessity in an elite warrior force, but it's not something one wants in one's next-door neighbors.
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Southern Bred & Black commented September 5, 2025
S
Southern Bred & Black
Chattanooga, TN ·
Sept. 5, 2025
Wait a minute... Trump says he didn't know anything about the SEAL Mission? Well who was that imposter who signed off on it? Somebody claiming to be the president had to sign off on the mission. Please don't tell me there are TWO Donald Trumps!!!!
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Damer3 commented September 5, 2025
D
Damer3
Co ·
Sept. 5, 2025
This article, which tells the story of a failed mission, would never be know to us. so thank you, NYT. However, I seriouisly hope the Dems, when they take over Congress next year, are keeping a running tally of the times and ways Trump has broken our laws. They will need it for their impeachment and conviction. I would love to see thart spreadsheet...
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BorisKur commented September 5, 2025
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BorisKur
Continental tip ·
Sept. 5, 2025
Love how America "negotiates!"
SEAL teams planting intelligence devices and killing civilian fishermen on the way, while "negotiations" were underway.
Pretending "discussions" with Iran while planning and executing a surprise bombing attack on Iran.
And who knows what else.
And now news of even more SEAL fiascos...
SEALS seemed so amazing when the war in Afghanistan started. Now it seems only news of SEALS murdering prisoners or Green Berets, doing drugs to pass training or messing up too many missions to let anyone know.
What they do is really tough. But seems the training, the recruiting and the leadership are all a mess.
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Here we go again commented September 5, 2025
H
Here we go again
Rochester MI ·
Sept. 5, 2025
Sorry, but think of a world where other countries conduct these missions on the United States. We would be up in arms - literally.
What goes around comes around. If this is in fact our modus operandis then expect your life to be continually under threat of retaliation if not outright destruction.
The recent summit with China, North Korea, Russia, and recently estranged India should be no surprise given our unpredictable and presumable unstable president. Our continual attacks on NATO are painting us into a corner we don’t belong.
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Lawrence commented September 5, 2025
L
Lawrence
Montrรจal ·
Sept. 5, 2025
Generally the reaction will be muted. The public has over the decades eaten up so many secret, SEAL scene stealing, IMF/Ethan Hunt fantasies that make the audience go “wow! That’s so cool!” AND video games (now being turned into live-action blockbusters) that reality really, really has to have huge bang-bang to get their attention. Just another action movie, with just words and no pictures, no explosions, no gruesome death of the central bad guys. This story will fade back into obscurity, to be supplanted by the next shiny thing, all designed to keep attention away from the ongoing corruption of the U.S. and the fantasy of its democracy. Guaranteed, there’s a movie-of-the-week propaganda piece telling “the true story” coming soon; get the popcorn ready.
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Fred commented September 5, 2025
F
Fred
Queens ·
Sept. 5, 2025
This was a crackpot mission. What could a listening device on the coast of North Korea reviewal about the thinking or the discussions or the planning or anything of the highest level, of Kim or any of his associates?
What is untraceable ammunition?
Why didn’t the planners understand that fishing boats frequent in the area?
Sounds like Trump was playing with his pieces.
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B commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
B
B
NYC ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@Dina Kaplan the SEAL team got spooked and shot into a boat full of innocent people to plant a listening device on a sovereign nation & your takeaway is still ‘brave’? The brainwashing of the average American that undergirds the imperial torment of the rest of the globe is stunning to, baffling to no end.
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Ron May commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
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Ron May
Philadelphia ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@Mkm So you agree there is no American exceptionalism. We’re just like everybody else. Right?
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Sharad Kumar commented September 5, 2025
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Sharad Kumar
New Delhi ·
Sept. 5, 2025
Now, this is the kind of journalism that makes America great. Sadly, it appears from afar that increasingly fewer American agree.
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Track Record commented September 5, 2025
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Track Record
NYC ·
Sept. 5, 2025
Given that Trump just had our Navy murder Venezuelan civilians, this is far from a surprise. Tack this performative viciousness onto the hundreds of thousands of Americans who died during the COVID pandemic due to his gross stupidity and venality, his fomenting of a rebellion, and his constant lies, and it is more than clear that this man should be serving multiple life terms in prison. Instead, our Idiocracy has him back behind the resolute desk with a supine Republican Congress.
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Deatroyallsuburbs commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
D
Deatroyallsuburbs
North Carolina ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@NA it’s is the original sin of the president and navy seals no? They shouldn’t have done it if they didn’t want it reported on.
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AdRock commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
A
AdRock
Chicago ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@NA I don't think two nytimes journalists have any obligation to improve our geopolitical relationships. They have an opportunity to correct the public record and make sure people know what their government is up to. And this is clearly leaked by members of ST6 themselves and perhaps Bolton. They don't seem too concerned about their own security.
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AdRock commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
A
AdRock
Chicago ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@Jennifer the seals themselves don't seem to care, seeing that they're clearly a direct source of this information.
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Allison commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
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Allison
Texas ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@NA: I would rather have the American people know what the government is doing—allegedly in our name. It’s the NYT’s job to keep the public informed of the nefarious dealings of the U.S. government, especially since Congress has been on vacation since January 2025.
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James McGillicuddy commented September 5, 2025
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James McGillicuddy
Hesperia MI ·
Sept. 5, 2025
Trump’s various North Korea fiascos perfectly embody his agenda of Total Failure. We might as well rename the United States the Trump Resort and Casino.
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Welcome Canada commented September 5, 2025
Welcome Canada
Welcome Canada
Canada ·
Sept. 5, 2025
Another Big, Beautiful, Blunder ...
Good read.
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NaCl commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
N
NaCl
Md ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@Eric: I, too, am grateful that we have brave men and women willing to do this difficult work. I disagree that this reporting, six years after the fact, undermines our national security and our international interests. What's the basis for your assertion? Do you think that the North Koreans didn't figure out the gist of what went down years ago? [Why do you suppose that their subsequent intransigence with Trump, and building out of their nuclear stockpile, occurred?] Do you think that significant friends (Britain, France, etc., if they're still friends after all of Trump's badmouthing) and foes (Russia, China) don't know about the mixed track record of the SEALs? Of course they do, and they also know that their own commandos also have mixed track records, too. If you're truly worried about folks who help out our enemies, then take a hard look at the behavior of the POTUS.
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Cronopio commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
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Cronopio
California ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@Jay how much bravery does it take to slaughter unarmed civilians?
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Phil commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
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Phil
Washington, DC ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@Me While soldiers are not required to follow illegal orders (and, under the Uniform Code of Military Justice, they have a duty to refuse to follow such orders), the difficulties here are: (1) Trump fired the Judge Advocates General, thereby removing the military's head attorneys, and (2) troops aren't trained in legal nuances, and a soldier can be subject to discipline for refusing to follow a valid order. In short, it's not about supporting Trump (from a soldier's perspective) but rather being ill-equipped to evaluate whether the orders are legal.
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Kent Allard commented September 5, 2025
K
Kent Allard
St. Louis ·
Sept. 5, 2025
"The lack of notification may have violated the law."
The dark, evil malignant genius of Trump throughout his life is he realizes that many laws aren't enforced, and lacking a conscience, he ignores them, then uses bluster and lies to avoid a reckoning. Rule of law is meaningless to him. So is Democracy.
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AH commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
A
AH
Burbank, CA ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@Howie Lisnoff
Indeed, many in the United States seem to have a love affair of sorts with the military and first responders. They are often looked upon as infallible heroes that project a moral superiority, creating a patriotic fervor that skews the national reality.
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Michael Collins commented September 5, 2025
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Michael Collins
Honolulu ·
Sept. 5, 2025
So many articles about this administration include sentences like, "in violation of the law". Does that even matter when there are no penalties for breaking the law these days? Where is the accountability?
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Kris G. commented September 5, 2025
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Kris G.
Minneapolis MN ·
Sept. 5, 2025
The SEALs murdered innocent fishermen, I wonder how they sleep at night. These operations, "successful" or not, happen under both parties, it's not just a Trump thing. I've never met a North Korean and no North Korean has ever harmed a hair on my head or threatened my family. These people are not my enemies. Do not kill on my behalf.
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Matt commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
Matt
Matt
Ohio ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@Patrick Healy: a key facet. If a covert op "goes wrong" but isn't known to go wrong, then it is still covert. Because if NK had ANY proof, the world would have already heard.
Deniability is a middle ground that factors carefully into the risk of such missions. The entire reason those civilians were shot in the head and then stabbed in the lungs was to deny the enemy evidence... which we promptly just handed them in the name of "public accountability."
That mission did not fail until today.
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Shoremother commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
S
Shoremother
cape charles virginia ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@Ken T. The public benefit is to expose the reckless and ill thought-out actions of Trump and his enablers. Witness the killing of the 11 Venezuelan citizens on the boat a few days ago. The difference now is that this administration feels confident and comfortable celebrating these wildly illegal actions which should frighten us all.
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Moi commented September 5, 2025
M
Moi
Ici Maintenant ·
Sept. 5, 2025
I work against Trump every day.
I am also a retired national security official and this is not in any way in the public interest. The public has no need to know this whatsoever.
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TendOnesOwnGarden commented September 5, 2025
T
TendOnesOwnGarden
Colorado ·
Sept. 5, 2025
I want to ask those of you who are concerned with revealing military secrets—why do you have so much faith in people who create our foreign policy and run our military? Two lost wars in Iraq and Afghanistan; a losing proxy war in the Ukraine; declaring victory over Yemen because we were running out of missiles? You want to give the people who did all of that the latitude to launch covert missions? What we need are more Daniel Ellsbergs, more insiders who know the sheer inanity of our ruling class and still believe that the citizens of democracy have a right to be informed.
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Richard commented September 5, 2025
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Richard
Wash DC ·
Sept. 5, 2025
Look, the real problem here is the Administration avoided intelligence oversight. Law's pretty clear on this. As for the mission itself, we can debate its efficacy but the national security establishment does stuff like this.
But what we learn is that Trump isn't good with oversight and that has to change. Appears the Biden folks cleaned up this part of the mess.
Just another case of Democrats cleaning up a Republican mess. Like that's never happened before.
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Zonai Researcher commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
Z
Zonai Researcher
Georgia ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@Jerry Sturdivant What was brave about shooting and killing poor unarmed fishermen?
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Maggie2 commented September 5, 2025
M
Maggie2
Maine ·
Sept. 5, 2025
Articles like this are what makes me keep renewing my NYT subscription.
Many thanks to Patrick Healy who never disappoints.
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BHB commented September 5, 2025
B
BHB
Ossining ·
Sept. 5, 2025
The mission failures aren’t an issue, since they’re very high risk, and no matter how much planning, something is going to go wrong.
Even the combination of small errors adding up to a catastrophic failure can be expected.
What’s disturbing is the hubris and unaccountability of the SOC command, and withholding of information from Congress by the Trump Administration.
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Michael commented September 5, 2025
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Michael
Virginia ·
Sept. 5, 2025
While this is just more lawlessness from Trump, a man with no regard for the law (and no accountability to it), don’t lose sight of the fact that every US president of the last 70 years has been a war criminal with innocent blood on his hands. Until Congress decides to assert its war powers defined under the constitution, US presidents will continue to unilaterally attack other countries.
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Bruno Hob commented September 5, 2025
B
Bruno Hob
Virginia,USa ·
Sept. 5, 2025
No expert, to me, this mission seems to perfectly model built in failure from over complexity and inadequate intelligence. So,much is planned for except - poor fishermen showing up in a small boat looking for shellfish. The possible gain: we can receive Kim's communications, maybe. And maybe Kim is not so dumb and assumes we are already reading his communications and so takes care what he says anyway. This looks like "we have these very special warriors; we have lots of energetic mid-rank military planners who want something to do, so let's play ball."
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Tim commented September 5, 2025
T
Tim
MA ·
Sept. 5, 2025
The communications blackout aspect of this story is pretty amazing. I don't claim to be any expert. I do build radio-controlled computers as a hobby. The shore team and the sub crew could see each other, and yet they couldn't talk by radio. That feels excessive. There's a big radio spectrum out there, and the power required for short-range comms would be tiny. A radio monitoring station miles away would have to be scanning every single frequency, and sensitive enough to detect very low-power signals. Also, any messages would be encrypted, and brief. And the signal would have to trigger a response. And the response would have to know where to go, which would require instant direction finding, alerting a security team, driving to the general area, etc. Also, how about sending messages by laser (basically, coded flashing lights) between the beach and the subs? I certainly hope the tech for these missions is constantly improving. How about delivering listening devices by low-altitude drones, launched by our subs?
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I see you commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
I
I see you
In America ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@TJF
It shows how willing he is to sacrifice our own service members.
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LM commented September 5, 2025
L
LM
Minneapolis ·
Sept. 5, 2025
Here are some social programs you could fund with the estimated $50 billion a year that is budgeted for missions like this one.
12 weeks paid maternity leave (UChicago estimates $7.4 billion a year).
Free community college (last dollar model, Education Data Initiative estimates $28 billion a year).
Make insulin free for diabetics using Medicare ($740 million a year, per KFF).
That still leaves $13.86 billion left over, which could be spent on activities that are more worthwhile than these missions, like: making papier-mรขchรฉ hats out of money, burying the money in Yellowstone National Park, or pulping it to make super absorbent toilet paper.
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Ann commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
A
Ann
Alaska ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@Eric we Why report it? Because it was inhumane, done without informing Congress, and is one more example of the ineptitude of this president.
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A.J. commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
A
A.J.
Illinois ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@Eric
Bro, these clowns and our ringleader president aren’t making anyone safer. They took on an incredibly risky mission for a marginal advantage in negotiations that were always destined to go nowhere. This could easily have blown up into a diplomatic crisis; I guess it’s lucky that all they managed to do is kill some civilians.
I applaud The Times for reporting on this story: SEAL Team 6 are clearly high on their own supply and need more oversight. Let me put this in terms that the SEALs might understand: this story was designed to puncture their egos much like you might puncture the lungs of some innocent fisherman murdered in the middle of the night to insure that they will sink.
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Jason 98144 commented September 5, 2025
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Jason 98144
Seattle ·
Sept. 5, 2025
Good reporting! I think it reveals some clear problems in the Navy SEAL program. There are a number of mistakes they made right? Parking their subs the wrong way, blowing the mission when they could have just ignored the fishermen, pulling a gigantic submarine into shallow water unnecessarily. A senior enlisted member opening fire without any authorization. All for a mission with really dubious benefits even if it went well. At the end of the day they didn’t even plant the device. If I were Trump or another president I would think long and hard before I sent them anywhere. The risks seem much higher than the rewards of their use.
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MacC commented September 5, 2025
M
MacC
NYC ·
Sept. 5, 2025
Cowboys. They spend millions of dollars on a mission where they could have used an old fishing trawler and some Sth Koreans on board to be able to converse with other fisherman if the need ever arose . These Seal Team 6 guys believe their own hype. Even the bin Laden raid went badly wrong when their helicopter crashed. Too much money and testosterone when low tech and smarts would have been better.
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Alex commented September 5, 2025
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Alex
Brooklyn, NY ·
Sept. 5, 2025
I wonder if this is being leaked now because there are more hare-brained, high-risk schemes of this sort in the works, devised and overseen by ever-less-qualified people.
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Abby commented September 5, 2025
A
Abby
Western Washington ·
Sept. 5, 2025
It's awful that the US killed a boatful of innocent guys fishing while we're out doing covert ops for the sole purpose of spying on NK. It's pretty crazy all around, but especially horrible that our special ops are so special that they shoot to kill innocent civilians instead of aborting their questionable mission. It's getting harder and harder to see the US as the good guys.
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Marc commented September 5, 2025
Marc
Marc
Portland, OR ·
Sept. 5, 2025
If foreign armed men sneaked into our country and killed innocent people, wouldn't we call it an act of terror?
Why don't we call it terrorism if the Navy Seals do it?
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John Smithson commented September 5, 2025
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John Smithson
California ·
Sept. 5, 2025
This reporting is not good. There's a good reason failed missions are classified top secret and officials break the law by disclosing them. Now North Korea's response to a public embarrassment may be a big problem.
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AKmuskox commented September 5, 2025
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AKmuskox
Alaska ·
Sept. 5, 2025
Yup. I’ve always suspected the man they elected delights in killing. His hands drip daily with the blood of children in Ukraine and Gaza. Meanwhile, our own country increasingly resembles the third world: no universal health care, and starting in 2026–2027, access will be further restricted. People will be forced to “work for it,” whether they can or not. Millions will die.
We don’t even know how many women have already died under abortion bans—states conveniently refuse to keep track. And Robert F. Kennedy, now Secretary of Health and Human Services, will drive mortality rates higher by withholding vaccines.
The Trump administration plays police, judge, and jury—not just over foreign boats of perhaps desperate people, but over our own citizens. And Chief Justice Roberts keeps a rubber stamp tucked behind his gavel for every injustice that crosses his bench.
Our poor, deluded nation is only just beginning to open its eyes. I can’t help but wonder how many untold horrors still lurk in Trump’s closet.
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Blud commented September 5, 2025
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Blud
Detroit ·
Sept. 5, 2025
This was basically a terrorist attack on a foreign country. Imagine how deranged our response would be if China did something like this off the coast of Florida. These people are all basically LARPing with our tax dollars and risking all of our lives. They should be jailed.
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Tony commented September 5, 2025
T
Tony
Sydney ·
Sept. 5, 2025
So in basic terms they murdered three or four fisherman, destroying those families. Good work guys.
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Marcus commented September 5, 2025
M
Marcus
Brazil ·
Sept. 5, 2025
I'm a Brazilian citizen that lives in Brazil.This article, and the comments, have shocked and horrified me on the cynicism and lack o shame of you, USA citizens. That was an illegal, unjustified and violent act, an act of war actually, that you just take for granted, as it was your "natural rights".
SHAME ON YOU!
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Rachel commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
R
Rachel
Ohio ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@Ian And not only that, but their lungs were punctured, so that their bodies would sink. Their families didn’t even have the benefit of recovering their bodies to be able bury them or to even know for certain what happened to them. Appalling.
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Kevin Cahill commented September 5, 2025
Kevin Cahill
Kevin Cahill
87106 ·
Sept. 5, 2025
We should not be attacking other countries and killing people.
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cc commented September 5, 2025
c
cc
NM ·
Sept. 5, 2025
This is the result of an incompetent leader and his appointed incompetent staff.
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Steven Morrell commented September 5, 2025
S
Steven Morrell
DFW Texas ·
Sept. 5, 2025
The potential benefits of this mission to plant a device for intercepting communications seem dwarfed by the huge complexities involved and what seems like a huge assumption of the capabilities of the special forces. I would wager that way less than 50% of missions like this succeed or had any hope of success. The Congress and the public need to know.
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Jen commented September 5, 2025
J
Jen
California ·
Sept. 5, 2025
I just watched Hegseth say, “The War Department- will get back to violent lethality“ - whatever that means. I think he’s speaking about the Venezuelan boat. The North Korean fishing boat in this story reminds me of that boat. No one really knows who was on either boat, or who the people that were killed were, or what happened to their bodies.
The horrible part of this story about “puncturing the lungs” of those on the boat makes me ill. Those people likely had families that waited up for them when they never arrived home - now today, six years later, they learn how horribly they died and how senseless it was.
I think we shoot first and ask questions later way too often. And I also think that because those killed were not white, or because there were only 3 or 11 — people just watch it go by and shrug. Those people had others who loved them. Fishing and driving a speedboat, are not crimes. Even drug smuggling - if that’s what was going on, deserves a trial. I don’t think it’s up to the U.S. to troll international waters— like Republicans troll the internet, —- and just take shots at whoever they don’t like.
It’s nuts & I hope the UN does something about it. I hope The Hague asks Trump to appear.
Hegseth and his ego are so desperate for attention, it’s seeping out of his pores —he’s on his knees for it constantly. Someone like that does not have the fortitude (moral or otherwise) for the job he currently has. He’s has no business making life & death decisions, ever.
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Alex T. commented September 5, 2025
A
Alex T.
Iran ·
Sept. 5, 2025
Thank you for telling us how incredibly reckless the US can be. Of course in the minds of most, the US remains the good guy and it's always the non-American who is evil.
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fomo brood commented September 5, 2025
f
fomo brood
marin ·
Sept. 5, 2025
Trump is like a elephant in a china cabinet. I have zero experience in diplomacy etc yet intuitively I know more then he does. I know its extremely complex with lots of sensitive components. You dont just invade a country. The worst part he didnt inform overseerers. he sees it as his army. He is a very scary person
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SeamusnotFriday commented September 5, 2025
S
SeamusnotFriday
NI ·
Sept. 5, 2025
So now, the megalomaniacs movie habit and ability to determine fact and fiction is determining foreign policy. I am surprised.
This is straight out of the plot for Die Another Day.
Honestly the man child needs constant supervision….
Reality TV gone crazy.
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hugh macarthur commented September 5, 2025
h
hugh macarthur
cazenovia ny ·
Sept. 5, 2025
The Pentagon has a saying "a dollar of diplomacy saves $100 in military and US lives". Reagans "cowboy diplomacy" ,cutting all back channel communications with USSR, made them think we were about to do a nuclear strike. Soviet radar officer Stanislov Petrov saw what looked like a US launch. He didn't report it,knowing it would end all human life on earth. The incident boosted hard liners in Soviet gov. Trumps actions then and now have the potential to cause FAR more harm than good. If caught the SEAL Teams 6 actions would have been a diplomatic boost for N Korea,China and Russia. Trumps trade wars now have made BRIC-Brazil,Russia,India and China the new dominant power alliance over the West. The risk to benefit ratio made this raid nuts to do.
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pipo commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
p
pipo
toronto ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@NA The box "why we did this story" seems to be just a boilerplate bit. A proper piece on how the decision to publish was made would be very intersting, for transparancies sake.
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AnthonyF commented September 5, 2025
A
AnthonyF
NYC ·
Sept. 5, 2025
I've been wondering what seal team 6 has been up too. Great reporting of classified military information, certainly on your way for that Pulitzer prize. So if reporting causes conflict, so be it. Actually it could increase the odds of winning that Pulitzer. Next how about showing us where all our nuclear subs are located.
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Kevin Burke commented September 5, 2025
K
Kevin Burke
Pittsburgh ·
Sept. 5, 2025
I think of Francis Gary Powers and how his U-2 mission derailed along with any goodwill between the US and USSR at a critical time in Nuclear Containment talks. It seems that Trump fell under the sway of the romanticized version of covert operations portrayed in so many movies and books. IF the mission had been a success, I can imagine Trump the blabbermouth compromising the results.
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H. Clark commented September 5, 2025
H
H. Clark
Long Island, NY ·
Sept. 5, 2025
I remember Trump getting all bent out of shape accusing Democrats of ‘spying’ on his campaign. This scenario with North Korea adds a whole new dimension to espionage. This was when Trump was currying favor with the North Korean autocrat, looking to pattern his own regime after that of Kim. So much for love.
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Sue the Cat commented September 5, 2025
S
Sue the Cat
Reynolds count mo ·
Sept. 5, 2025
The revelation of this story will not make Mr. Trump happy; I expect there will be loud denunciations of those "unpatriotic" people who revealed what happened and of the news media--the New York Times in particular--for revealing the truth, with threats and investigations to follow. Congratulations to the Times for speaking boldly in a time of creeping fascism.
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Rho commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
Rho
Rho
One of the Springfields ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@Marge Keller
The duty to notify relevant members of Congress is not required BEFORE the mission, only afterward. So it was not a matter of failing to obtain a greenlight by anyone in Congress.
No, this would not have resulted in impeachment even if the pertinent members of Congress had been duly notified. It was a clandestine mission that failed. It had a valid purpose - collecting intelligence from an adversary power. The fact that it failed was regrettable but was not in any way grounds for impeachment.
There have been - and continue to be - many high crimes and misdemeanors committed by our 45th and 47th president but this is not one of them.
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HolyCrow commented September 5, 2025
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HolyCrow
Boston ·
Sept. 5, 2025
Remove the American exceptionalism lens for a few moments and fathom how we would feel about North Korean subs landing west of Washington state and blowing away a boat of civilian fishermen.
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Charles Martin commented September 5, 2025
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Charles Martin
Greenville, SC ·
Sept. 5, 2025
Killing innocent North Koreans, Venezuelans, god knows who else. I'm sure the evangelicals will say this is just what Jesus would do.
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Ken T. commented September 5, 2025
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Ken T.
Massachusetts ·
Sept. 5, 2025
Disclosure of classified military and intelligence gathering operations is wrong. There is no gain from this disclosure - only a loss to our military personnel and our important intelligence operations.
On what basis does the NYT consider itself the gate-keeper responsible for determining whether to disclose our intelligence gathering methods when that information has been given up by people who know that they are acting against our national interests and therefore refuse to be identified? They know that they can be criminally prosecuted for the illegal disclosure of classified information, so the NYT aids and abets their violations of law.
In doing so, you put at risk our people and our national security.
Shame on you for making know classified information which should never have come into your knowledge.
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phil morse commented September 5, 2025
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phil morse
Earth ·
Sept. 5, 2025
No thoughts and prayers here for the families of the unarmed fishermen murdered by our brave seals...only concerns about breach of secrecy. American exceptionalism at its finest.
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Mary commented September 5, 2025
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Mary
Maryland ·
Sept. 5, 2025
So…. Trump essentially ordered the murder of unarmed civilians in a nation with which we are not at war? Or, if not ordered, tolerated and even planned for that possibility? Is anyone surprised that North Korea doesn’t trust the United States, and regards the US as engaged in provocations? Isn’t this disastrous mission the very definition of a provocation?
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AuH2O64 commented September 5, 2025
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AuH2O64
Texas ·
Sept. 5, 2025
Now let’s see how Trump reacts to this showing up in the newspaper. Who gets fired. Who gets investigated. Which reporters get subpoenaed.
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Eileen commented September 5, 2025
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Eileen
New Jersey ·
Sept. 5, 2025
Trump broke the law. Why do you have a hard time stating that? You vacillate - "may have broken the law". They murdered those men in NK. Just like they murdered those 11 people in the boat in Venezuela. Our gov is murdering innocent people in our names. NK has 50 nuclear weapons. Way to start a war.
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AJ commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
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AJ
Ohio ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@Eric Because Americans deserve to know when our military and government are killing innocent civilians. That’s why.
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DD in LA commented September 5, 2025
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DD in LA
CA ·
Sept. 5, 2025
No problem with this and other missions against North Korea, given their constant financial and other acts against us.
The problem, again, is electing a buffoon who has ultimate authority over missions such as this. Now, the problem is worse given Trump can’t be re-elected, and he’s even more uncontrollable.
You can blame him and his cronies, or the foolish voters who gave him power yet again. Yes, Congress is rolling over for him, but before, the American electorate did.
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My Friend Bob Sacamano commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
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My Friend Bob Sacamano
NYC ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@NA All due respect to the Times, but I have to assume that if they can discover this, NK can (and likely has) too. Without publishing, I’m not sure how the administration can be held accountable for not disclosing to congress and possibly violating the law on a highly significant action.
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nc blue commented September 5, 2025
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nc blue
NC ·
Sept. 5, 2025
"The North Korean leader seemed increasingly unpredictable and dangerous..."
Same could be said about the US Leader.
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Kadim commented September 5, 2025
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Kadim
NYC ·
Sept. 5, 2025
What rules of engagement? This is a story of murder. Plain and simple.
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Bruce H. commented September 5, 2025
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Bruce H.
Spokane, WA ·
Sept. 5, 2025
Maybe I’m stupid, but how is that not an act of war on our part? Is there a specific number of military personnel required in a situation like this to call it an “invasion?” Wasn’t the nuclear sub entering North Korea’s territorial waters an act of war all by itself? How does this story NOT turn into an impeachment of a President who authorized an invasion of a foreign nation by members of the military, who then murdered innocent civilians and buried the bodies, like officially-sanctioned serial killers? And operations like this, leaving to civilian murders, were conducted under Bush and Obama, too? And no one is held accountable? I confess that I truly do not understand what kind of a country we are anymore.
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Film maven commented September 5, 2025
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Film maven
New York, NY ·
Sept. 5, 2025
I find it extraordinary that the killing of civilians was legal. So if the North Koreans dispatch a commando to Long Island and kill a couple of pizza deliverers on their way out, that's OK? I would love to see a more detailed legal explanation.
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Patricia commented September 5, 2025
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Patricia
Huntington ·
Sept. 5, 2025
I am not seeing comments on what to me is the most disturbing and sickening part of this story. How is it okay to murder innocent civilians and then mutilate and hide their bodies because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time? We were not at war with North Korea - the team was on a mission to spy. These killings have to violate international law somehow. It is evil in any regard and horrible. And now we kill people instead of pursuing them for alleged drug crimes?
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Paul commented September 5, 2025
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Paul
Seattle ·
Sept. 5, 2025
You can be sure that this is just one of many illegal secret actions this administration has taken, inside and outside the country. Who knows what else they’re up to.
Great job in bringing one of them to light.
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scbarfly commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
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scbarfly
nowheresville ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@Liam
Ditto. A fascinating account of something that none of us should have had fall into our laps today notwithstanding the titillation factor. It's clear as the nose on my face that while this was a top secret mission not released for public consumption by legal authority, a good number of anonymous sources took it upon themselves to squeal. I can't imagine why the Times chose this moment to blabber ๐ฅด Surely not because of the moment being right on the heels of another, less closely held military strike involving a boat. boating incident. Oh well.
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Justine commented September 5, 2025
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Justine
Florida ·
Sept. 5, 2025
Wait. A US spy team invades a sovereign nation, screws up and murders a few civilians and this is "justified under the rules of engagement"??? Can anyone (like the reporting team?) shed some light on this truly assertion?
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Dean commented September 5, 2025In reply thread
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Dean
AZ ·
Sept. 5, 2025
@Patrick Healy I’m inclined to give high praise to NYT reporting this. Though I understand the confrontational relationship to NK, the history of our involvement of intelligence and black ops is mostly failure since WW2.: Iran install of the Shaw, Vietnam, WMDs, ETC. Our own government is now so out of touch with anything of reality that its aggressive nature may put us into even more WMD missions in the near future, not a good thing at all. Thankyou!
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Mike commented September 5, 2025
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Mike
Buffalo, NY ·
Sept. 5, 2025
I don't care what the intentions were. I do not care that some sleazy bureaucrats decided that the killings of civilians was justified. It was not. It was plain murder and Trump should be charged as an accessory after the fact as should every one involved. This is why the world hates us.
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Philip commented September 5, 2025
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Philip
America ·
Sept. 5, 2025
The US just kills people everywhere. Its credibility to do such things for any reason resembling "right" is very rapidly disappearing. They just look like the crimes that they are. Imagine if some country killed three Maine fishermen for the same reasons. You should hope that as your country rapidly fades from prominence people will forget such transgressions. I guess that's how it went with England so it'll probably get a pass.
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S. Benson commented September 5, 2025
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S. Benson
New York ·
Sept. 5, 2025
There is always tension between security and the need for oversight by the public for actions taken in its name.
But I do have to question “They found that the killing of civilians was justified under the rules of engagement.”
What legal structure allows for the killing of innocence civilians?
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RBO commented September 5, 2025
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RBO
NJ ·
Sept. 5, 2025
North Korea no longer has to worry. Trump will be too busy using US armed forces against the United States. :(
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Redacted commented September 5, 2025
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Redacted
Redacted ·
Sept. 5, 2025
And... What if it had been an actual North Korean military boat, and a firefight broke out, and the Seals were killed and/or captured? What if "the big nuclear submarine maneuvered into shallow water close to the shore, taking a significant risk to pick them up" and got involved with some serious North Korean military?
The potential downside is rather enormous and doesn't seen to have been well thought out. If your Plan B is shoot all the witnesses and flee, that's not a great plan. Your average high school student could think that up in 15 minutes.
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Thomas Camara commented September 5, 2025
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Thomas Camara
Tipton Indiana ·
Sept. 5, 2025
Exellent article,, Ty for your courage in reporting it.. As an American taxpayer and a DT voter i want to know what the President is up to. Spare me the purists mindset that it's none of our business but to trust and obey nonsence,, this covert operation reeks of violating congressional approval not to mention international law. Reckless at best.
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Wylde commented September 5, 2025
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Wylde
Colorado ·
Sept. 5, 2025
This inept, incompetent president--whose whole family has famously avoided military service in one way or another, and who doesn't want to pay a lick of taxes--does not at all mind putting other people's lives on the line for his bravado.
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Sojourner Truth commented September 5, 2025
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Sojourner Truth
Potomac, MD ·
Sept. 5, 2025
Can any American believe that an emotionally unstable and intellectually challenged President is sigining off on. missions of this complexity and international magnitude?
It is clear that Republicans lack a degree of shame, defending this President, but you would think they would have a degree of fear for their families and their fellow citizens.
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Pocono Gal commented September 5, 2025
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Pocono Gal
Pocono Mountains PA ·
Sept. 5, 2025
It's important to get this news story out in the open. It shows how Trump has recklessly ordered military actions without the knowledge of Congress or the American people. From what I've heard and read, Trump acts rashly, without consulting experts. It's scary to think the people of our country, as well as other nations, are subject to his cavalier decisions. He has little concern for the lives of other people, as he has demonstrated in his treatment of immigrants in our country. What happened to the Koreans who were killed could easily happen to others. He should be required to get the Congressional approval before giving military orders. By disrespecting the sovereignty of other countries, he could create a tinderbox leading to an unnecessary war.
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Matt Jaqua commented September 5, 2025
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Matt Jaqua
Portland, OR ·
Sept. 5, 2025
North Korea will suspect that the US is behind any odd occurrence, so the argument that disclosing this one six years after the fact creates some heightened risk is weak.
NK knows we have special forces, mini subs and big subs. Any country with an intelligence agency or cable tv does too.
There were no critical details revealed except maybe that the mini subs have interior lights.
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Stuart Reininger commented September 5, 2025
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Stuart Reininger
New London CT, Calabria italia ·
Sept. 5, 2025
A true nightmare. Donald Trump, Pete Hegseth et. al. Performing, playacting, bragging, all proven incompetents. And all positioned to put dedicated Americans in danger and sending and having sent others to their death; to say nothing of the extrajudicial killings of foreign civilians. These are the leaders of what was once the most respected nation in the world. And the eventual price which must and will be paid will fall on all of us.
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